Weaknesses (and strengths) of cast

[JohnM]

In any fan forum, discussion can often devolve into "aren't they great!"-type inanity. We're all fans, so obviously we think they're great.

What about their weaknesses? What they don't do so well? Please don't flame me, but I will start out with Mel Blanc. He is one of my Top 5 favorite cast members (maybe even Top 3), but even he aint poifect. Truly one of the all time masters of voice characterization, there's one key area within that domain where, IMHO, he was asked to deliver many times but didn't come through: accents, or more specifically, foreign accents (his regional US accents were great, and he set the standard for Brooklyn accents).

Mel's French accent was just about passable -- Professor LeBlanc was not my favorite character, but he did an OK job with the accent (and when he played French waiters). His Mexican accent was OK, I guess. But whevever he was asked to do an English, Scottish, Irish or German accent -- OMG (as my daughter says) -- it could be TERRIBLE.

Now, Dennis Day on the other hand did a fine English accent and a very good German one - why wasn't he drafted to do those roles? (Dennis's Irish accent was effortless, but a little bit "stage Irish")

Anyway, I've rambled, and not to pick on Mel Blanc. ANyone interested in a discussion of cast members various strengths AND weaknesses?

[Brad from Georgia]

Don wasn't the best actor. In the skits, the others could either enter the roles completely (Dennis) or they could rely on their established personalities to subsume the character to their personas (Jack, Phil). Occasionally, Mary could "do" a character, adopting a dialect or an attitude. Generally, though, Don sounded, well, announcerly. There are a few exceptions--Don performed quite well in the "Treasure of the Sierra Madre" spoof.

[mackdaddyg]

Mel's French accent was just about passable -- Professor LeBlanc was not my favorite character, but he did an OK job with the accent (and when he played French waiters). His Mexican accent was OK, I guess. But whevever he was asked to do an English, Scottish, Irish or German accent -- OMG (as my daughter says) -- it could be TERRIBLE.

Granted, Mel may not pass for a Frenchman in France, but that's the beauty of the way he did it. I don't see any of his accents as pure interpretations, but rather as satire. It's kind of like Sid Caesar. When he's imitating other languages, he's basically speaking gibberish, but it SOUNDS so much like he's the real deal.

That being said, I don't recall hearing Mel's take on other accents, so I'm not sure how bad he sounds. You're right about Dennis. He was much more versatile with voices than I would have thought.

[JohnM]

Generally, though, Don sounded, well, announcerly.

Agreed. He played his regular gags so well, but in a sketch routine his delivery was often ham-handed.

[JohnM]

Granted, Mel may not pass for a Frenchman in France, but that's the beauty of the way he did it. I don't see any of his accents as pure interpretations, but rather as satire. It's kind of like Sid Caesar. When he's imitating other languages, he's basically speaking gibberish, but it SOUNDS so much like he's the real deal.

I can see that.

That being said, I don't recall hearing Mel's take on other accents, so I'm not sure how bad he sounds.

He was drafted to play bit part Englishmen several times -- i.e., characters that might only have two lines in the whole episode. (The other nationalities I mentioned, maybe only once.) But he sure didn't sound English.

Granted, doing a good English or Scottish accent is a lot harder than the impressionist satire you mentioned for French (or other non-English language) accents. I guess I'm surprised that Mel wasn't better at it, since he was so good at voices generally.

[shimp scrampi]

If you want to hear weaknesses in each cast member, I find it instructive to look at their earliest appearances and see how they evolved. Mary stopped being flighty and ditzy; Phil started out as a much more measured, suave character, etc. It might not always be that they were "weak" at doing these versions of their characters, but so much better at their later incarnations.

Here's a big weakness. I don't think Jack could tell a straight "joke" at all, of the "A man walks into a bar..." etc. type. There are some attempts at this in the early, early shows, and it doesn't work for Jack's persona. They'd occasionally use this later on to show Jack being obnoxious or "not funny but trying to be", a la the "like a moose needs a hatrack" line.

I'd agree on Don's acting skills - not so much.

As for Mel, it is hard to judge the accents on their "accuracy", since they are intended to be so cartoony and over the top, as mackdaddyg points out. But certainly the British Isles accents weren't as enduring as M. LeBlanc or the variations on the Brooklyn schlub.

[JohnM]

Here's a big weakness. I don't think Jack could tell a straight "joke" at all, of the "A man walks into a bar..." etc. type. There are some attempts at this in the early, early shows, and it doesn't work for Jack's persona.

Well, it didn't work for his future persona. He had a different persona in the earliest episodes that was more edgy (for the times), smart alecky master of ceremonies.

They'd occasionally use this later on to show Jack being obnoxious or "not funny but trying to be", a la the "like a moose needs a hatrack" line.

Yes, or when Jack would make fun of Rochester or Dennis for making a joke in an off-stage situation, which he panned, even though they were funny, because of his petty jealousy or insecurity. Then later, he would work the same joke into his act when he was "on stage" and it would bomb, mostly because of his faux over-hammy delivery.

[Mister Kitzel]

Larry Stevens was a singer and came across as a nice guy, but he did not stand out with a unique personality. Something about Dennis Day early on made him seem to be more than just the voice you heard in conversation, like he was hiding a surprise --which turned out to be true. Maybe Larry was really just a nice guy or the show purposely held him back so he would not be missed when Dennis returned to the show.

Bob Crosby was definitely not Phil Harris. It is absolutely a good thing that Phil was not replaced by a band leader trying to be just as boisterous. That never would have worked. Bob stood out because he was not the polished radio actor that everyone else in the cast had become by the early 1950's.

[Yhtapmys]

Maybe Larry was really just a nice guy or the show purposely held him back so he would not be missed when Dennis returned to the show.

Bob Crosby <snip> stood out because he was not the polished radio actor that everyone else in the cast had become by the early 1950's.

Larry wasn't a radio actor. He was an amateur singer. It's no surprise his line-reading was pretty stiff.

Bob was the same Bob Crosby he was on other radio programmes, so the writers couldn't really exaggerate his character too much.

I honestly don't think the regular cast members had a lot of weakness because the writers wrote to their strengths. The only mis-steps, for me, are bringing in new supporting characters that didn't catch on. But you're not going to be 100% on those.

Yhtapmys

[LLeff]

Here's a big weakness. I don't think Jack could tell a straight "joke" at all, of the "A man walks into a bar..." etc. type. There are some attempts at this in the early, early shows, and it doesn't work for Jack's persona. They'd occasionally use this later on to show Jack being obnoxious or "not funny but trying to be", a la the "like a moose needs a hatrack" line.

I think that this goes back to the age-old comic vs. comedian definition: a comic says funny things, and a comedian says things funny. I remember hearing (can't remember if I actually heard this or just heard about it so well that I formed my own imagined image of it) that Jack once read the phone book and got laughs. A comic would deliver the "man walks into a bar" type jokes.

That said, look at some of the opening monologues on the TV show. This is a better representation of Jack doing his equivalent of "jokes". For example, just going from memory...Jack comes out and is trying to stifle laughter. He then says (approximately), "Folks, you have to forgive me. I just spent the most wonderful half hour...I was listening to one of my old radio shows...Gosh, was I funny!" The line is kind of funny on its own, but it's more around Jack's character of being egotistical.

So you see...there were these three jockeys, and they were all jammed into a submarine...

[Jhammes]

We never did find out the "punch line".


("You all can leave...I'm staying here until I get my waterfall...")

[shimp scrampi]

That said, look at some of the opening monologues on the TV show. This is a better representation of Jack doing his equivalent of "jokes".

I actually thought about that a bit after I posted, and I agree the TV monologues are about the closest Jack would get to trying "comic" rather than "comedic" material, but even there it is pretty slim! I think about George Burns' monologues for comparison - he could do "third person" stories about Gracie's family or the vaudeville days or whatever. As you say, Jack's material almost invariably falls back on Jack being the punchline - he wouldn't do stories like "Dennis and Don were talking the other day and...."

Whether he "couldn't" or "didn't" is another story, Ultimately I think Jack and the writers found the groove and the persona and it really wasn't much of an issue. Clearly they found an approach that worked!