Best Jack Benny TV Show is Seinfeld?

[Jack Benny]

I've been wanting to post this for a long time. I have always felt that the Jack Benny TV Shows were not nearly as interesting as his radio shows. The main reason for this is that the radio shows could bravely be about nothing, and yet the writing and characters could carry the show anyway. The TV show moved away from this and maybe audiences weren't ready for this concept yet.

Years later, to me it looks like Jerry Seinfeld took much of the radio show formula to make a classic TV show. It has always struck me at just how much the Elaine character reminds me of Mary's character...sort of a love interest but not really...the most sane member of the group. Krammer does to the visual medium what Harris did to the audio medium years before. His TV entrances have every bit the bravado that Phil's audio entrances did, to say nothing of the wild hair similarities. Jerry an Jack also have their similarities, and they both were fine giving most of the laughs totheir co-stars. George is a nice amalgam of Dennis, Don, and Rochester all rolled into one. Could Newman have anything to do with Allen?

Too me Benny and Seinfeld are probably too of the funniest shows ever written for any medium, and I'm happiest when they are about nothing at all but the great characters that inhabit them.

Thoughts?

[Gerry O.]

Very interesting topic....I've always thought that the Jerry-Elaine relationship was very similar to the Jack-Mary on-air relationship. Each couple dated other people, but they also went places and did things together....and like Jerry and Elaine, you can't help but get the feeling that at one time Jack and Mary had a more serious relationship going, but it just didn't work out...but they still remained friends.

[Jack Benny]

Here is another similarity between the two shows. On Seinfeld's reunion special, Jerry makes a big deal about how his show got a pilot, then it got the OK for a four episode season-the shortest amount of episodes ever oked by a major network-he says, then 13 shows the following season, then finally 22.

I've read the script of Jack's first show when was picked up after his pilot. Jack comments sarcasticaly on how the sponsors are so impressed with the show that they have oked a four episode season. He says to not bother looking for him in the tv listings, but to just look for a blue moon. Then he got a few more the following year and finaly started doing full seasons. To be truthful though, I have always heard that all of this was at Jack's discretion, and that he chose to start with a four episode season comprised of 45 minute shows.

I've never heard of two shows so similar in so many ways, and yet so many years apart. I don't believe, that there has ever been a four episode season besides Seinfeld's and Benny's first seasons.

[Gerry O.]

Here is another similarity between the two shows. On Seinfeld's reunion special, Jerry makes a big deal about how his show got a pilot, then it got the OK for a four episode season-the shortest amount of episodes ever oked by a major network-he says, then 13 shows the following season, then finally 22.

I've read the script of Jack's first show when was picked up after his pilot. Jack comments sarcasticaly on how the sponsors are so impressed with the show that they have oked a four episode season. He says to not bother looking for him in the tv listings, but to just look for a blue moon. Then he got a few more the following year and finaly started doing full seasons. To be truthful though, I have always heard that all of this was at Jack's discretion, and that he chose to start with a four episode season comprised of 45 minute shows.

I've never heard of two shows so similar in so many ways, and yet so many years apart. I don't believe, that there has ever been a four episode season besides Seinfeld's and Benny's first seasons.

True, but the "four-episode" season varied between Jack and Jerry. Jerry's four episodes were shown on consecutive weeks as sort of a "mini-series", while Jack's four shows were spaced out months apart....they were more like "mini-specials". Of course, the four Seinfeld episodes had a uniformity to them....same cast, same basic format, etc. , while each of the four Benny shows had its own separate identity....different formats, different casts, etc.

Jack Benny was VERY cautious of getting into television. Unlike some other famous radio comedians who entered TV, Jack refused to give up his regular radio series.....he continued to appear on weekly radio while "dipping his toe" in television by appearing on TV on an irregular basis. As Jack's confidence and popularity grew in TV, he increased the frequency of his television shows.

[LLeff]

OK, now the disclaimer is that I've not seen Seinfeld, and all I know is what I've heard through social osmosis. Well, I saw half an episode, but it didn't do much for me. I also once saw Jerry Seinfeld perform live at a big trade event, and I just didn't connect with his work. Not that there's anything wrong with Jerry Seinfeld, I just can't defend the assertions below based on first-hand knowledge.

With Jack's show, I still have people say to me that they felt like the Benny gang were extended friends or family. People knew and loved these characters in a very personal way. Multiple people have expressed such affection for Jack that they saw him as a surrogate father or grandfather figure, and cried for long periods of time at his passing.

In contrast, I've heard that the Seinfeld gang was locked up on the last episode for being obnoxious and completely self-absorbed. Of the Benny gang, who was truly obnoxious? Perhaps Mary, at times. But it seems that the Seinfeld gang doesn't inspire that same level of warm affection that the Benny gang does.

For the Seinfeld fans in the audience, is this an accurate assessment?

[Gerry O.]

OK, now the disclaimer is that I've not seen Seinfeld, and all I know is what I've heard through social osmosis. Well, I saw half an episode, but it didn't do much for me. I also once saw Jerry Seinfeld perform live at a big trade event, and I just didn't connect with his work. Not that there's anything wrong with Jerry Seinfeld, I just can't defend the assertions below based on first-hand knowledge.

With Jack's show, I still have people say to me that they felt like the Benny gang were extended friends or family. People knew and loved these characters in a very personal way. Multiple people have expressed such affection for Jack that they saw him as a surrogate father or grandfather figure, and cried for long periods of time at his passing.

In contrast, I've heard that the Seinfeld gang was locked up on the last episode for being obnoxious and completely self-absorbed. Of the Benny gang, who was truly obnoxious? Perhaps Mary, at times. But it seems that the Seinfeld gang doesn't inspire that same level of warm affection that the Benny gang does.

For the Seinfeld fans in the audience, is this an accurate assessment?

Laura, if you stop and think about it, Jack and his gang really weren't what you would call "warm and fuzzy" characters.....

Jack was petty, jealous, cheap and vain. Mary was smart-mouthed and sometimes downright rude. Phil was loud, bombastic, ignorant and crude. Dennis was stupid to the point of being annoying....and he could turn on Jack in an instant. Don could be a pompous know-it-all and a big, spoiled baby if he didn't get his way.

Yes, these were not people who you would immediately call "lovable"....and yet, there was just something about them that endeared them to the public. Even with their faults and flaws, we love them like members of our own family.

The characters on "Seinfeld" can be hysterically funny and the public enjoys watching them, but I don't think that we LOVE them the way that we love the Benny characters. I really think that this is due to the talent of the writers and performers on the Benny show. Everyone on the Benny show knew just how far to take those character flaws....just far enough to be funny, but not too far where people actually were hurt. On "Seinfeld", people DID get hurt, both physically and emotionally. Again, it could be VERY funny, but it also put up sort of a barrier on any REAL emotional attachment and fondness that we could have for the "Seinfeld" characters.

Some diehard "Seinfeld" fans will probably disagree with me on this, and I'm in no way faulting the "Seinfeld" series....but I've never heard fans say that they thought of the "Seinfeld" characters as "family", but I HAVE heard people say that they thought of the "Benny" characters that way.

[haverpopper]

Very interesting comparisons; I've very familiar with both shows, and I think Gerry O. is pretty accurate in his assessment. Part of the humor of Seinfeld is from the shock value of seeing people actually getting hurt, physically and emotionally as Gerry puts it. There was an episode of "Seinfeld" where a guy almost dies because no one's willing to give him mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. Funny because it goes so against the grain of normal decency, and also because it plays to that selfish part in all of us that really just doesn't want to have to put our mouth on another guy's mouth, even if it could save his life. On the Benny show that would never happen on the air, though it might make a fine joke about something that happened off air. (Can't you hear Mary relating some story about how Jack almost didn't give Fred Allen mouth-to-mouth resuscitation? When you think about it, all the really nasty character flaws on the Benny program occur "off camera," so to speak.)

Structurally, I can see some of the similarities mentioned in the original post, especially in the Jack-Mary/Jerry-Elaine relationships. And the Benny show *was* indeed often about "nothing," way ahead of its time in that regard.

[Jack Benny]

On the Benny show that would never happen on the air, though it might make a fine joke about something that happened off air. (Can't you hear Mary relating some story about how Jack almost didn't give Fred Allen mouth-to-mouth resuscitation? When you think about it, all the really nasty character flaws on the Benny program occur "off camera," so to speak.)

Structurally, I can see some of the similarities mentioned in the original post, especially in the Jack-Mary/Jerry-Elaine relationships. And the Benny show *was* indeed often about "nothing," way ahead of its time in that regard.

How about this! I can easily see Jerry and his gang drive a store clerk insane with their crazy discusions. Then the store clerk steps in the back room and blows his head off. I can see Jerry say, "That's a shame," then walk out of the store. It's a perfect Seinfeld moment...wait a minute...Wait a Minute...WAIT A MINUTE! Jack did that bit 40 or more years ago!

[Gerry O.]

How about this! I can easily see Jerry and his gang drive a store clerk insane with their crazy discusions. Then the store clerk steps in the back room and blows his head off. I can see Jerry say, "That's a shame," then walk out of the store. It's a perfect Seinfeld moment...wait a minute...Wait a Minute...WAIT A MINUTE! Jack did that bit 40 or more years ago!

You know, this is getting SCARY! The more we analyze this, the closer the two shows are coming together!