IJBFC Chat - December 2, 2007
(Name of message originator in  brackets at the beginning of each line)
[Maxwell] Same here.
[Steve *shimp*] I don't even have a full set of the radio shows.
[Steve *shimp*] Hiya LL!
[Laura Leff] *Sigh*
[Maxwell] There she is...speak of the devil!
[Steve *shimp*] Just was thinking about giving you a call.
[Laura Leff] Has everyone had the problem I had getting into the chat?
[Maxwell] I didn't, but Steve did.
[Laura Leff] Or did people think I forgot and split?
[Steve *shimp*] No, we were wondering if there was a log on problem. It was just a little slow for me.
[Maxwell] I got here a few minutes early, and nobody has left.
[Steve *shimp*] So far we've been the only two here wondering what's going on.
[Laura Leff] I was here before the top of the hour, but my computer takes about 15 minutes to boot up
[Laura Leff] Then once it booted, I couldn't get into the chat
[Laura Leff] I'm going to set E-mail to download and see if I've got E-mail from people reporting problems.
[Maxwell] I actually got here twice before the hour. I kicked myself out the first time.
[Steve *shimp*] by booting you mean running the java? Or starting your machine.
[Laura Leff] Booting as in starting the machine
[Maxwell] If it takes that long, maybe you should really boot it.
[Steve *shimp*] Oh. I just noticed it seemed to take awhile to get the login after clicking on the chat startup.
[Laura Leff] My machine is a bit long in the tooth
[Laura Leff] Steve - yeah, that's where I hung as well. Had to eventually kill IE and start over.
[Steve *shimp*] I'm on firefox.
[Maxwell] Ah, that's the problem. Using IE.
[Maxwell] Ditto Steve.
[Laura Leff] I could download Firefox...nice browser...I just don't use it a lot.
[Steve *shimp*] Definitely the way to go.
[Maxwell] This could just be the day for being late.
[Steve *shimp*] Everyone's out shopping, deciding on cufflinks, gopher traps, dates, shoelaces, etc.
[Maxwell] The club I'm involved with had our holiday party today, and our guest was 2 hours late.
[Maxwell] And lingerie with loops in the bottom.
[Steve *shimp*] Fashionably late?
[Maxwell] No, he forgot.
[Steve *shimp*] Da loops.
[Maxwell] Yeah, da LOOOOPs.
[Laura Leff] I think of that as being the very definition of the "mooley guy"
[Laura Leff] Nope, nothing but mostly spam in my recent inbox. Oh well.
[Maxwell] Okay, what the heck does mooley mean?
[Steve *shimp*] Is that how he's referred to in the scripts?
[Laura Leff] You know, that's a great question. I first heard it from Phil Harris, and had no idea.
[Steve *shimp*] Maybe it's a Do-Wah-Dittyism.
[Laura Leff] Have no clue as to its etymology...it basically means a guy who is kind of slow and unrefined, sort of low class.
[Laura Leff] I can't remember...wait...yes I can...
[Maxwell] Then that was the epitome of the mooley guy.
[Laura Leff] It's generally put down as [MOOLEY] in the direction of how to read the first line
[Laura Leff] Like
[Laura Leff] Mel: [MOOLEY] (Dahhh) Yes sir...can I help you?
[Laura Leff] The (Dahhh) is mine
[Maxwell] And Mel's.
[Laura Leff] Just knowing that's how Mel would read it with that sort of instruction
[Laura Leff] I was reading George Balzer's manuscript yesterday and noticed that [slightly mooley] was in one of the lines
[Laura Leff] Did we lose everyone?
[Steve *shimp*] Elliot Lewis as the Mooley clerk.
[Laura Leff] Or did you lose me?
[Steve *shimp*] No, I'm here at least.
[Laura Leff] Steve - Right...and that's who Phil was referring to
[Steve *shimp*] I think of him more with Phil's show than Jack's.
[Laura Leff] He kept saying "He played the mooley guy", and I didn't have the slightest idea what he meant.
[Laura Leff] Elliott Lewis was one of those regular supporting cast members who isn't talked about as much, sort of like Herb Vigran and Joe Kearns.
[Laura Leff] Max?
[Laura Leff] I think we lost Maxwell.
[Steve *shimp*] Joe Kearns was here too.
[Maxwell] No, I got a phone call from my son.
[Laura Leff] OK, just checking you were here.
[Laura Leff] Gotcha.
[Laura Leff] Mine son Pierre
[Laura Leff] Steve - Joe Kearns was on the show, you mean?
[Steve *shimp*] Yeah, not in the chat!
[Steve *shimp*] Sorry.
[Laura Leff] [LL is cheating...didn't have time to listen to the show in advance.]
[Steve *shimp*] Urban dictionary defines "mooley" as "what Italians call black people" (!)
[Maxwell] Speaking of Elliott Lewis, I discovered watching Bat Masterson reruns on Encore Westerns that he directed a few episodes of that series.
[Laura Leff] Huh!
[Maxwell] Steve, not the Italians I know.
[Steve *shimp*] But, Urban Dictionary has all kinds of crazy stuff on it.
[Maxwell] And I married one.
[Steve *shimp*] Never heard it before either, just passing along the info.
[Laura Leff] I'm not sure how that "mooley" would connect to the "mooley" style of the Benny show.
[Laura Leff] I never heard it on The Sopranos.
[Laura Leff] Say, here's a question just to float for curiosity
[Steve *shimp*] OK, float away.
[Laura Leff] In reading George Balzer's manuscript, he relies very, very heavily on quoting from the scripts.
[Laura Leff] And fortunately I've heard all but one of the shows quoted (and not that show only because it's "lost").
[Laura Leff] I've thought that it would be interesting to have a CD of sound clips quoted...might be sort of like a "writer's guided tour" of the Benny program.
[Laura Leff] I don't know if the family would consider having it published or not, just ruminating.
[Steve *shimp*] You know, there IS one of those on archive.org but I haven't bothered to listen to it.
[Laura Leff] Does this sound like something of interest?
[Steve *shimp*] A fan-made thing...
[Laura Leff] It's probably hard to answer without having read the manuscript...but just in concept
[Maxwell] Yeah, I'm kind of wondering the form it would take.
[Steve *shimp*] Have you heard the audio book of George Burns' GRACIE A LOVE STORY?
[Laura Leff] Steve - Yeah, it won a Grammy I think.
[Steve *shimp*] With George's recollections interspersed with B&A radio clips?
[Steve *shimp*] That's what I'm envisioning.
[Laura Leff] Unfortunately, George Balzer can't narrate it for us.
[Steve *shimp*] Well, someone else could read his text.
[Steve *shimp*] Obviously not ideal.
[Laura Leff] Interesting idea...hadn't thought about that.
[Laura Leff] It's all very theoretical, since I haven't broached anything with the family.
[Steve *shimp*] When reading something like Milt Josefsberg's book, you can just HEAR the bits of the scripts he quotes.
[Maxwell] Chuck Schaden did something like that with a bunch of interviews he did with people associated with the Benny show, including Balzer. I thought it was fascinating.
[Maxwell] He played those last Feb.
User yhtapmys has entered this room.
[Steve *shimp*] I think even casual Benny fans just know those voices so well, it's impossible to read a quote from Jack (or Mary, Phil, etc.) and not hear their voices.
[Maxwell] Hey yht
[Steve *shimp*] Hiya yht!
[yhtapmys] Hi all
[Laura Leff] Hm. It might play better as an audio version, especially considering that the book is such a fast read for me with all the clips that I already know.
[Laura Leff] Welcome yht!
[yhtapmys] Sorry, I'm late. I was at the library
[Laura Leff] Yht - That's OK. I was at the gym.
[Maxwell] I was here early.
[Steve *shimp*] Hey, I think it would be great to get it out there in ANY format!
[yhtapmys] At my age, the gym doesn't help.
[Laura Leff] Ah, the gym helps at every age.
[Laura Leff] Keeps you closer to 39.
[yhtapmys] But I'm 39 now!
[Steve *shimp*] Infants on treadmills!
[Laura Leff] Just look at the TV show where Jack and Don go.
[Maxwell] I've been 39 for 18 years.
[yhtapmys] Have been since 1990 or something like that.
[Laura Leff] Ah, here's a fun fact...
[yhtapmys] OK, 1995.
[Laura Leff] Got a new member the other day who said he'd grown up sitting on his father's lap listening to Jack.
[Laura Leff] He's 18 now.
[yhtapmys] Infants on Treadmills to Oblivion, Steve.
[yhtapmys] Well, one of the stations has run OTR here for decades.
[Maxwell] Hmmm...Now I know I'm going to crack up when I have that stress test later this month.
[Laura Leff] Steve - You've given me a very surreal mental image. Thank you.
[Steve *shimp*] Did his father tell him to get off his darn lap already?
[Laura Leff] Yeah, like the friend of mine who told me he was on the radio when he was 8.
[Laura Leff] He said he was on the radio for a long time.
[Maxwell] What did he do? Stand on it?
[Laura Leff] Then finally his mother said, "Will you get off that radio, you're gonna break it!"
[Steve *shimp*] I've got a lamp that's on the radio too and I won't go out with it either...
[yhtapmys] Gee, I was first on the radio when I was 14.
[Maxwell] Sorry...I stopmed on your punchline.
[Laura Leff] Steve - Thanks Mary
[yhtapmys] 8's a little early.
[Laura Leff] Max - No problem.
[Laura Leff] I also was first on radio when I was 15.
[Laura Leff] I celebrated my 16th birthday on air under a pseudonym ("Georgiana Gershwin" thankyouverymuch)
[Maxwell] I was on the radio when I was maybe 10. I called a local call-in show in Kankakee, IL.
[Laura Leff] Dedicated a song to myself.
[yhtapmys] Oh, OK, Laura.
[yhtapmys] I did the high school news every week until I finally got into the business.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Are you still in the business?
[yhtapmys] 32 years of it.
[Laura Leff] Congrats! Few can make a real living of it.
[yhtapmys] Who says I'm making a living?
[Laura Leff] I just *knew* you were going to say that.
[yhtapmys] But I was at a TV commercial shoot today.
[Laura Leff] Did anyone get killed?
[yhtapmys] I haven't done TV in over 20 years.
[Steve *shimp*] Oh, thank god, someone's shooting them.
[yhtapmys] I forgot how well it pays.
[Maxwell] So he's finally dead?
[yhtapmys] The TV killed Elvis.
[Maxwell] It fell on him.
[yhtapmys] Says so on the internet.
[Laura Leff] I thought Elvis shot the TV. I guess it got its revenge.
[yhtapmys] TV Karma
[Steve *shimp*] The "
[yhtapmys] New reality show.
[yhtapmys] Writers strike, you know.
[Laura Leff] TV Dogma
[yhtapmys] They'll put anything on.
[Steve *shimp*] The "Elvis is Alive" museum in St. Louis is closing. So, I guess he isn't alive anymore.
[Laura Leff] New network (or old one, actually)
[yhtapmys] No, Steve, it was sold.
[yhtapmys] Some guy wants to move it.
[Laura Leff] The Comedy Hall of Fame closed, but that doesn't mean there isn't any comedy.
[Steve *shimp*] Well, that's good news. I hope they move it closer to me.
[yhtapmys] Do a web search.
[Maxwell] They closed it when Rip Taylor was inducted.
[Steve *shimp*] Where was the comedy hall of fame?
[yhtapmys] We ran the story awhile ago.
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Too much seltzer?
[Laura Leff] Steve - Florida
[yhtapmys] Should have been in the Catskills.
[Steve *shimp*] Huh. I was just in Florida last week.
[Maxwell] With all that seltzer, one can only wonder how much Rip Taylor contributed to global warming.
[Laura Leff] That was no lady, that was my wife
[yhtapmys] Rip never used THAT one.
[Steve *shimp*] Ah, he uses recycled confetti.
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Not to mention hot air
[Laura Leff] Mental image...Rip Taylor on a Benny TV special
[Laura Leff] You can all just picture it, right?
[Maxwell] *In fetal position*
[Steve *shimp*] Although I heard his toupee was made from endangered species...Orlons, I think.
[yhtapmys] Rip AND Richard Simmons.
[Laura Leff] Yht- Ouch
[Laura Leff] Steve - How many naugas gave their lives for that sofa?
[Maxwell] LL sometimes you scare me with your mental images.
[Laura Leff] Well, here's the deal...I'm envisioning Rip doing his schtick and Jack just staring at him,
[Steve *shimp*] You can't hunt naugas, 'cause naugas HIDE.
[Laura Leff] getting showered with confetti
[Maxwell] With his hand against his cheek.
[Laura Leff] Looking from Rip to the audience and back again
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Exactly
[Maxwell] Now I'm cracking up!
[yhtapmys] Jack would ask him to pick it up so he can use it at the next wedding he goes to.
[Laura Leff] Max - Now you've got it...it's not so scary!
[Steve *shimp*] I think Jack would be trying not to laugh at him.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Good one!
[Maxwell] I'm glad my wife is at the other end of the house. She'd wonder what the heck is so funny.
[Laura Leff] And it would probably lose something in the translation.
[Maxwell] I can just hear it now. "Who's Rip Taylor?" Then I'd have to explain THAT!
[Laura Leff] So even though I didn't listen to it, any thoughts on the show for tonight?
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Got a young one, eh?
[yhtapmys] Laura, is that Del Sharbutt or Basil Ruysdale doing the Lucky spot in this show?
[Steve *shimp*] I think it's one of the best of the Christmas shows.
[Maxwell] No, just not heavy into that kind of comedy.
[Laura Leff] I'd have to pull 39F...let me chck
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Ah, understood.
[yhtapmys] Del had a bit more resonance, but it's tough to tell on the quality of this aircheck.
[Steve *shimp*] I've got it here LL, it's Sharbutt.
[Laura Leff] Thanks
User Krledu has entered this room.
[Maxwell] BTW, now I've got that Be Happy, Go Lucky jingle going through my head again.
[Steve *shimp*] Hi Krledu
[Laura Leff] Hello Krledu
[yhtapmys] The reason I ask...
[Maxwell] Hi Krledu
[Krledu] Hello everybody
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - I apologize
[yhtapmys] I was going through a local radio column from 1950...
[Krledu] Going a little crazy but I'm here
[yhtapmys] And the guy named Del Sharbutt the best announcer.
[Laura Leff] Shar, butt there was a close second
[yhtapmys] He did a piece on Jack I wish I had saved.
[Maxwell] I recently found out that Basil Ruysdale was a former opera singer.
[Laura Leff] OK, reached too far for that one
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - I can imagine that.
[yhtapmys] It was about Jack's pauses.
[Steve *shimp*] I wouldn't tell that joke to a dog! (you can start barkin', brother!)
[Laura Leff] Yht - Do you remember the columnist? Anyone we'd know like Kupcinet?
[yhtapmys] No, no. It was a local guy.
[Laura Leff] Jack's
[Laura Leff] pauses
[Laura Leff] I saw a Vitaphone short yesterday of Burns and Allen doing Lamb Chops
[Laura Leff] FWIW
[Krledu] Whats a Vitaphone?
[yhtapmys] Is that on U2b
[Laura Leff] Yht - No, I went to the San Francisco Silent Film Festival
[Maxwell] Krledu That was Western Electric's sound on disc system for talking pictures.
[Steve *shimp*] I like those old B&A shorts.
[Laura Leff] Krledu - First talking films.
[yhtapmys] Oh, great!!
[Maxwell] They formed a corporation with WB called the Vitaphone Corp.
[Laura Leff] Even before Jazz Singer
[yhtapmys] I hope the print was a good one.
[Laura Leff] Oh, they were all breathtaking prints
[Laura Leff] A bunch of Vitaphones of vaudeville acts
[Steve *shimp*] Where did you see it LL?
[Laura Leff] Then the FULL movie Intolerance
[Laura Leff] And then Flesh and the Devil
[Krledu] Where do you find them?
[yhtapmys] Well, I'll pass on Griffith.
[Laura Leff] Steve - Castro Theatre, San Francisco
[yhtapmys] But who else was in the shorts?
[Steve *shimp*] Ah, they always show interesting stuff.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Just resentful of Birth of a Nation, or what?
[Laura Leff] Yht - Let's see...let me grab the program.
[Steve *shimp*] They've shown the Lamb Chops short on AMC or TCM, one of those.
[Laura Leff] Spencer Tracy in a dramatic short
[Maxwell] Steve I've seen it on TCm.
[yhtapmys] No, just the flash-here, flash-there nature of it.
[Laura Leff] Shaw and Lee
[Laura Leff] Yht - Yes, understood. He liked his editing.
[Maxwell] George Bernard Shaw and Pinky Lee. Great act!
[Laura Leff] I'd recommend against Eisenstein as well if you don't like that.
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Pinchus Leff, thankyouverymuch.
[Maxwell] Of course!
[yhtapmys] And her cousin Boo Boo.
[Laura Leff] Willie and Eugene Howard
[Laura Leff] The Foy Family (6 of the kids)
[Laura Leff] Norman Thomas Quintette in Harlem Mania
[Maxwell] As opposed to the Farkle Family.
[yhtapmys] Were these all Warners shorts?
[Laura Leff] Butler and Brennan (funny story there)
[Laura Leff] Dick Rich
[Laura Leff] Mound City Blue Blowers
[Laura Leff] That's it
[Maxwell] Red McKenzie!
[Laura Leff] Yht - Yes, all Vitaphone 1926-1930.
[Maxwell] Playing his comb and paper!
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Yeah, he was the lead!
[yhtapmys] Max, didn't he do voices for Van Beuren?
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - He also played something into like a coffee can...do you know what it was?
[Maxwell] Red McKenzie? Not sure.
[Laura Leff] I couldn't see what was making the sound from the aperture
[Maxwell] LL I don't know. All I know him for is comb and tissue paper.
[yhtapmys] I'm sure he did a Cubby Bear cartoon.
[yhtapmys] As a singer.
[Maxwell] He might have.
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - He started with that and sang, but then moved to the other.
[Maxwell] He had some pretty good players make records with him. Jack Teagarden, Coleman Hawkins, etc.
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Oh yes. They read down a list that sounded like a who's who of jazz
[Laura Leff] Frankie Trumbauer, Bix, etc.
[yhtapmys] I hope the sound was restored, then, too.
[Laura Leff] Sitting all by myself, I was prompted to say, "Dang!"
[Laura Leff] They were all well-restored...they even had the restorer there speaking before each set of 3.
[Maxwell] (And I'll bet you still haven't checked out Gunhild Carling)
[Laura Leff] Was done at UCLA.
[Krledu] Was this like a special showing or something?
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - You're right, I haven't. But not for lack of interest, just lack of time.
[Steve *shimp*] Was it a good sized audience? I'm always curious about that...
[Maxwell] I know how that goes.
[Laura Leff] Krledu - It was the San Francisco Silent Film Mini-Festival
[Laura Leff] Steve - It grew through the day. They even had people in the balcony for Flesh and the Devil and I've never seen that before.
[Maxwell] There is a great Vitaphone short with Roy Smeck playing various instruments.
[Laura Leff] People in the balcony there or the movie.
[Laura Leff] They get a surprisingly mixed crowd there. Ages and all.
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - I provided the lost sound for some short, but I don't think it was Vitaphone.
[Krledu] I think there is a growing number of younger people getting interested in old files and radio
[Laura Leff] I'd have to go pull the transcription disc.
[yhtapmys] I've never been to the theatre. Been to some bars there, though.
[Maxwell] All I know is that when I was growing up in the '60s I was the only person I knew who liked that stuff.
[yhtapmys] Poor Jack.
[Laura Leff] Something I was thinking of there yesterday
[Maxwell] I wonder if it's the same way nowadays.
[yhtapmys] It sounds like he's going to break up seeing Mel Blanc at the beginning.
[yhtapmys] The show's only three minutes old.
[Laura Leff] That film is still a going medium.
[Laura Leff] People still go to movies.
[Krledu] Well I am of the younger generation and I am facinated by this stuff
[Laura Leff] But with radio, radio drama/comedy doesn't really exist in this country any more.
[Maxwell] LL There is some but not much.
[Steve *shimp*] It's funny that it persists on BBC.
[Krledu] And in the OTR groups I have joined you would be surprised how many younger people there are
[Maxwell] And a lot of it is religious in nature.
[yhtapmys] CBC still does some, Steve.
[Laura Leff] But it's definitely not as pervasive as the movies.
[Krledu] Though I found something that sounds a lot like OTR on the radio
[Laura Leff] And the movies are still "cool"
[Steve *shimp*] Yes, forgot our Canadian brethren! CBC as well.
[Maxwell] Movies are a nice dark place to go out on a date. There will always be movies.
[yhtapmys] My tax money is supporting actors in between waitering jobs.
[Krledu] But its very modern and a little bit on the edge side
[Laura Leff] I just wonder if that's why I see a heavier percentage of young people at the Silent Film Festival than I do at OTR gatherings.
[Krledu] Yea but going to a movie is epensive
[Laura Leff] Rucy
[Maxwell] LL "Film" is actually studied. I don't know that OTR is, at least "officially."
[Maxwell] I Ruv Rucy?
[Krledu] I wonder why that is Maxwell
[Laura Leff] But it was pretty cool to go up to a woman from the Library of Congress who was signing copies of her book, plunk down my IJBFC card in front of her, and she says, "Yeah, I've heard of you!"
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - That's a very good point.
[Maxwell] Krledu The only thing I can figure is that it's considered a dead language like Latin.
[Steve *shimp*] Also SF and major metro areas with colleges are a different audience for a silent film fest.
[Laura Leff] Yeah, why isn't OTR studied like film?
[yhtapmys] Because it's aural.
[Steve *shimp*] It would probably tank somewhere else.
[Krledu] Its has great acting and a lot people can learn from it today
[Laura Leff] Steve - Very true. For all entertainment events as well.
[Laura Leff] So why does taking the pictures away make it less "salable"?
[Steve *shimp*] Film's always had a non-commercial "artsy" side. Hard to think of examples of that in radio.
[Laura Leff] Or salient, as the case may be
[Krledu] I wish there were things like Silent Film festivals around where I live
[Laura Leff] Steve- KPFA?
[yhtapmys] Likely because young people grew up with TV and video games.
[Steve *shimp*] Yeah, but I think of that as more informative than like abstract art film.
[Laura Leff] Krledu - What's your area?
[yhtapmys] They don't listen to a lot of radio.
[Krledu] But with no picture, you had to be more creative to get the idea across
[yhtapmys] They have IPods.
[Krledu] South of Indianapolis
[Laura Leff] Krl - Ah, I'm sorry to hear that.
[Steve *shimp*] Phil Harris territory.
[Laura Leff] Krl - But doesn't Indy have anything?
[Maxwell] Yeah, there's a dirth of anything like that out here in the sticks.
[Krledu] They do have Indiana University but not much of that
[Laura Leff] Heck, I couldn't even see a Woody Allen movie in Fort Wayne because they'd play for about a night and then close.
[Krledu] Indy has some stuff, but hard to find. Yea I do live out in the sticks kinda
[Maxwell] Woody Allen movies don't play here. You have to go to a college town or Chicago to see them.
[Laura Leff] Krl - Indy seemed like a cultural mecca compared to FW. But I did see Wings at the art museum.
[Krledu] Yea Chicago had more stuff like that
[Krledu] Indianapolis is about an hour and half north of me
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - So you're not getting "No Country for Old Men" either, I'd bet.
[Maxwell] Back when I was in school almost 40 years ago, the student union used to have "Silent Nights".
[Laura Leff] Krl - Gotcha. So you're closer to Ball State. Serious sticks.
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - ???
[Maxwell] What's "No Country for Old Men"? (And I'll bet that answers your question.)
[Krledu] But its kinda funny, I visit in the nursing home and everyone there watches old tv shows. They are surprised that I know what they are watching
[Maxwell] A night of silent movies.
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Oh, that's cool.
[Krledu] You got that right Laura
[Maxwell] Yeah, but it was nearly 40 years ago.
[Laura Leff] And wasn't there something with Rocky and Bullwinkle
[Laura Leff] Where they edited up silent movies?
[Maxwell] LL Fractured Flickers.
[Steve *shimp*] Fractured Flickers?
[Laura Leff] That's it
[Maxwell] With the inevitable Hans Conreid.
[Laura Leff] I've never seen it, but it sounds like something I'd enjoy.
[Maxwell] It was pretty funny.
[Krledu] Though I'm curious, do the silent films have very good story lines or plots?
[yhtapmys] Hans? Where's Kay?
[Steve *shimp*] They used to rerun it on Nickelodeon.
[Krledu] Or are they more slap stick comedy
[Laura Leff] Hey Maxwell, would you believe I found a Doctor Who episode that seems pretty clearly inspired by "The Loved One"?
[Steve *shimp*] I thought it wore out its welcome pretty quickly.
[Maxwell] Krledu There were heavy dramas. The goal was to used title cards as little as possible.
[Steve *shimp*] Like Mystery Science Theater, it's a matter of taste.
[Maxwell] LL: Cool!
[Laura Leff] Krl - Oh, it's as varied as movies today.
[Maxwell] Steve: I'm a huge MST3K fan.
[yhtapmys] Steve, I should have copywrited the MST3K idea.
[Krledu] Educate me, what are tittle cards exactly
[Maxwell] That's how dialogue was conveyed.
[yhtapmys] A buddy of mine at work and I used to do the same thing watching Bollywood movies.
[Laura Leff] Krl - I saw "The Big Parade" at the SFSFF a few years ago and it's a really gripping human drama
[Maxwell] Also plot points.
[Steve *shimp*] See, with MST3K I'd rather just watch the original movie.
[Laura Leff] Krledu - Intertitles - The cards shown on the screen with words to convey plot or dialogue
[Maxwell] Steve, but the movies were so BAD!
[Krledu] I think I got the dictionary version there
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Sorry...echo in here
[yhtapmys] It's kinda like the commentary track on a DVD.
[Maxwell] Little old lady whoooooo?
[Laura Leff] I just could never get into MST3K
User Scott in KC has entered this room.
[Krledu] Hey Scott
[Steve *shimp*] Yeah, a commentary you CAN'T TURN OFF!
[Laura Leff] Reminded me too much of idiots sitting behind me in theatres talking over a movie
[Laura Leff] Hi Scott!
[yhtapmys] Hmmm. A reference I don't get.
[Maxwell] LL We used to riff to movies like that in college if they were bad.
[Steve *shimp*] Exactly LL.
[Laura Leff] Uht - Which reference?
[Steve *shimp*] Hi Scott
[yhtapmys] The Glen McCarthy/tax reference.
[Maxwell] Hey Scott
[Steve *shimp*] Glenn McCarthy was an oilman who fell into some financial misfortune.
[Laura Leff] Oh, my mother and I used to riff on movies as well. Dan and I still do. But if you really want to see it, you can just stop.
[yhtapmys] Oh, OK>
[Steve *shimp*] They based "Giant" on him, that movie.
[yhtapmys] Never heard of him.
[Maxwell] Or Edna Ferber did.
[Laura Leff] James Dean and Elizabeth Taylor...interesting pairing.
[Krledu] When I think of McCarthy, I think of the communists
[yhtapmys] I think of Bergen.
[Maxwell] That was Joe.
[Scott in KC] I just want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah, and a happy, healthy and blessed 2008!
[Laura Leff] Yht - You'll hear him mentioned periodically when they want to refer to someone very wealthy.
[Maxwell] Scott: Right back atcha.
[Krledu] Same to you
[Krledu] Hey Laura before I forget, I have a question for you
[yhtapmys] I love these Christmas casts.
[Laura Leff] Like Jack tells Phil that Alice can laugh at Glenn McCarthy's checks (when Phil says she laughs at Phil's paycheck).
[Maxwell] Laura Except Liz was married to Rock in Giant.
[Laura Leff] Scott - You too!
[Laura Leff] Krledu - OK, shoot. But not too close.
[Scott in KC] Thank you! God bless all of you! Pray for peace!
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - True, but just interesting in their different acting styles.
[Krledu] I was reading excerpts from you book 39 forever on Amazon. com and I read something interesting.
[Maxwell] No more so than Liz and Montgomery Clift.
[Laura Leff] I'll have a peace of pie
[yhtapmys] So far, there's been Blanche Stewart and Joe Kearns.
[Laura Leff] Krl - You ought to read the real thing...it will blow your mind.
[Laura Leff] Krl - Do know that I am teasing you.
[Steve *shimp*] Just think what BOTH volumes will do!
[Krledu] I read where you said that Kenny Baker was called as a witness against Jack in his smuggling case. Why would they call him? And did that have something to do with why he was not on the show.
[Maxwell] LL how much is an untorn copy of Vol. 2?
[Krledu] Yea I know
[yhtapmys] Geez, did Jack forget Artie Auerbach's character's name?
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - $40.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Kitzel?
[Maxwell] I think that might be doable.
[Krledu] I was just trying to finish my long question. I am asking fo ryou book for Christmas
[Laura Leff] Krl - Nope, as far as I know, it had nothing to do with him going off the show.
[Krledu] Oh yea and why is your book cheaper on Amazon (new) then it is here on the web site?
[Maxwell] Yeah! Why is that?!?
[Laura Leff] Krl - And as far as why he was called, it's probably because (IIRC) Kenny was shooting a movie in Europe that summer and ran into Jack and Mary about the time that they must have been doing the deal with Chapereau.
[Krledu] So he was forced to testify?
[Maxwell] Krledu I'm sure he was probably sub poenaed.
[Laura Leff] Krl - Because it's the publisher selling it, and they have better economies of printing than my orders.
[Krledu] Oh i see
[Maxwell] If I'm buying I'm putting the money into LL's pocket.
[Laura Leff] Krl - But please feel free to order it there...I'll still get a percentage on it.
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Thank you!
User Brad has entered this room.
[yhtapmys] Laura, yeah, it sounds like he forgot. Jack just goes "well, hello... hello" and comes up with the name after the applause. Normally, he's say "Why, Mr. Kitzel."
[Maxwell] Hey Brad
[Laura Leff] But like Maxwell said, he was subpoenaed. Didn't have a lot of choice.
[Steve *shimp*] Hi Brad
[Laura Leff] Hi Brad!
[Maxwell] Nope, I got one of those earlier this year. You have no choice but to appear.
[Brad] Love that Artie Auerbach, don't you?
[Krledu] No if I order it it will be through the site. Just curios about it though
[Maxwell] Unless you want to be held in contempt of court.
[Laura Leff] Hoo hoo hoo!
[Krledu] I have wanted one of you books for a while now
[Brad] And thanks to Laura, I recently got to see what the man looked like.
[Laura Leff] Auerbach? You mean a photo on the site?
[Laura Leff] Or a DVD?
[Brad] No, a DVD I finally got to watch.
[Laura Leff] Ah, gotcha.
[Laura Leff] He had a good face for the part.
[Brad] You dubbed it for me a couple of years ago, finally catching up.
[Brad] The cruise ship.
[Laura Leff] Brad - Belive me, I know how that is.
[Laura Leff] Brad - Marilyn or Jayne Mansfield?
[Brad] Hiding from his wife.
User Scott in KC has logged out.
[Maxwell] Now I'm going to have to play that again.
[Laura Leff] Do you think I offended Scott?
[Maxwell] LL He said he was just coming in to wish a Happy Merry.
[Laura Leff] Sam Hearn had a good face for it as well, but he was playing the rube by then.
[Maxwell] Or is it a Merry Happy?
[Laura Leff] Max - Oh...saw the greeting but didn't realize that was all he had time for.
[Krledu] Did Sam Hearn playy the I dunno guy to?
[Steve *shimp*] You can see Sam Hearn as Schlepperman in the Mansfield cruise ship episode. Artie had died by then.
[Laura Leff] Krledu - No, that's Benny Rubin.
[Steve *shimp*] So they brought the Schlep back.
[Laura Leff] Sam Hearn played the Rube and Schlepperman.
[Brad] I know I'm barging in, may I ask a question?
[yhtapmys] Barge away.
[Krledu] There are two cruise ship episodes?
[Laura Leff] Brad - By all means.
[Maxwell] Brad the Barger.
[Laura Leff] Krledu - Yup. Reused the bit.
[Steve *shimp*] Yes Krledu, one with Marilyn Monroe and one wiht Jayne Mansfield.
[Brad] The music riff at the end of the AFRTS Jack Benny radio programs.
[yhtapmys] Like Jack the Plunger?
[Laura Leff] I'm sure there's a suitable Terry Pratchett quote at this time, but all my books of his are downstairs.
[Brad] Big Band of course, have no idea what the title is, would love to find out.
[Laura Leff] Brad - Yes, I have no idea what the first song is.
[Laura Leff] It segues into "They Say It's Wonderful"
[yhtapmys] Oh damn.
[Laura Leff] If they have to fill enough time.
[yhtapmys] I know which one you mean.
[Krledu] On the same line, are there any non AFRTS recordings of the shows in the 50's
[yhtapmys] But I can't remember the title.
[Brad] OK, so people *DO* know what I'm talking about, excellent.
[Laura Leff] Da-da-doo-WAHH Da-da-doo-WAHH Da-da-doo-badadadadadada
[Brad] Heh heh heh.
[Maxwell] Brad Got a date for one of those episodes?
[yhtapmys] It's The Something With the Something... grrr.
[Krledu] Laura, pleaseeee....
[Laura Leff] You know, I really should ask Marty Halerpin.
[Brad] Any AFRTS episode from 1947 or so and beyond.
[Laura Leff] Krl - Oh, definitely.
[yhtapmys] Yeah. It should be listing in 39 Revisited
User JBDarnell has entered this room.
[Laura Leff] hello JB
[Krledu] Ok cause they ones that I have are all the AFTS programs
[Brad] They stick out because I don't feel like a cigarette after listening to them. :-)
[JBDarnell] hi all
[Steve *shimp*] Brad
[Steve *shimp*] Hi JBD
[Maxwell] Hi JB
[Brad] They seem 5 min shorter without the LSMFT repeated ad nauseum.
[Laura Leff] Krl - Another reason to get 39F...I list whether the AFRS or the network version is available.
[Brad] Yes, Laura, I know, I know...
[Brad] I will be purchasing shortly.
[Laura Leff] AFRS is a secondary source in my mind, less preferred to the network source.
[Brad] Laura - agreed.
[Krledu] ALso,Laura, Did you have the recordings where the script girl stands in for Mary when she was doing her lines at home?
[Krledu] All the shows that I can find on the internet are not from the network
[Laura Leff] Krl - Jeanette Eymann. As far as I know, the last show is the only one circulating with her standing in.
[Brad] I will offer, however, that maybe the reason AFRTS episodes are so prevalent is because AFRTS made about a kajillion copies of each transcription.
[Krledu] You are probably right Brad
[Laura Leff] Marty Halperin is the man who did those AFRS edits. I just talked to him at SPERDVAC last month.
[yhtapmys] Brad, I wonder if they had different transcriptions here in Canada.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Than AFRS?
[yhtapmys] We don't have Lucky Strikes here.
[yhtapmys] I don't know why they're run *A* FRS here.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Was that true back then?
[Brad] yht - I'm sure there are differences.
[yhtapmys] Yeah, they didn't sell American cigarettes then.
[Laura Leff] Well, AFRS wouldn't have run on the network. It's Armed Forces Radio Service.
[yhtapmys] I just thought about this now, Laura. One station I worked at had old transcriptions.
[Laura Leff] Hmmm. I thought I remembered Jack making an announcement about having an affiliate in Canada, but maybe that was the Jell-O days.
[yhtapmys] Not of Benny but of Dennis's show.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Oh man, should have grabbed them.
[yhtapmys] I never paid attention to the commercials.
[yhtapmys] Laura, I taped one.
[Brad] The ironic thing is, if you ever watch AFRTS, they have about as much or more propaganda as any American Tobacco-sponsored Benny show.
[Laura Leff] Silly me, but who sponsored Dennis' show?
[yhtapmys] But the station owner grabbed the disks.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Can't say as I blame him.
[yhtapmys] They were pristine. They'd been played once.
[Laura Leff] I'd imagine that Colgate would have marketed in Canada.
[yhtapmys] We had a transcription turntable in the production library.
[Laura Leff] This station had been around a while.
[yhtapmys] It was the old sound booth for the live orchestra shows.
[yhtapmys] So I played some of the transcriptions on the all-night show.
[yhtapmys] That's when the owner realised the station had them.
[yhtapmys] Yeah, the building went up in the late 40s.
[yhtapmys] It was a CBC affiliate, so it originated some programming.
[yhtapmys] But it also got transcriptions of American shows the CBC ran.
[Laura Leff] I have a 16" player as well, but play transcription discs so seldom that it's not hooked up at the moment.
[yhtapmys] Old McCurdy turntable. Worked great.
[Laura Leff] I'm pretty sure Canada got Jack's programs...
[Laura Leff] I think I've had Canadian members recall that.
[yhtapmys] Oh, yeah. The Dominion Network ran them.
[Laura Leff] But I can't explain what they would have done with the cigarette commercials. Dunno.
[yhtapmys] That's why the radio columnist here reviewed them.
[Krledu] Hey didnt some of the letters of the I Can't stand Jack Benny contest come from Canada. I think I remember something about that
[Laura Leff] Maybe hoped people would make a run for the border?
[Laura Leff] Yht - Ah, well there you go.
User Fred Allen has entered this room.
[Krledu] Hi Fred
[Laura Leff] Hi Fred
[yhtapmys] And here in Vancouver, we could pick up Seattle.
[Steve *shimp*] Hi Fred.
[Maxwell] Hi Fred
[yhtapmys] Hello, baggy-eyes.
[Fred Allen] Greetings
[Laura Leff] Krledu - Hmmm...not sure on that one. I suppose they would have come from wherever Jack's show was heard.
[Laura Leff] Krl - What's your recollection on that?
[Laura Leff] Did we lose everyone?
[Maxwell] I'm here.
[Krledu] I could be wrong but I think I heard it on the show with the Colmans. They were reading letters that had been "sent in". But I think I remember Jack saying they even got some from Canda.
[yhtapmys] Listening to the Sportsmen.
[Steve *shimp*] Shoot, Jack started working for Canada Dry ginger-ale.
[Krledu] Gotta love those Sportsmen
[Steve *shimp*] If it weren't for Canada...
[Laura Leff] Phil Harris tried to drink Canada Dry
[Laura Leff] but I think he wasn't successful.
[Steve *shimp*] Sounds so much better than "US Wet" Ginger Ale.
[Laura Leff] Or Mexico Moist Ginger Ale
[Maxwell] Canada Dry should have sponsored Sgt. Preston.
[Laura Leff] Yukon Dry Ginger Ale
[Laura Leff] Another question similar to the first...sometimes I think it would be interesting to publish the scripts of the Canada Dry shows, since the audio is pretty lost.
[Maxwell] Who unlike the Green Hornet wasn't a relative of the Lone Ranger.
[Laura Leff] But they're all Harry Conn shows. And people don't seem very interested in those early shows.
[yhtapmys] I was thinking about that the other day, Laura.
[Krledu] Why don't they publish all the scripts?
[Laura Leff] So maybe, like the audio of Bright Moments, it's only interesting to me.
[yhtapmys] I just listened to the first Jell-O shows. I quite like them.
[Krledu] Where they good shows?
[Laura Leff] Krledu - I think the family just hasn't thought of it yet. So I can always approach them about it.
[Krledu] Jello-o had some good shows
[Maxwell] LL Actually I'd be interested. I don't know why, but I'm interested in the show before the characters were developed.
[Laura Leff] Krledu - They're DIFFERENT. Especially the start of the Jack-Mary association.
[yhtapmys] I'm pissed off the music was cut, though, from the airchecks.
[Krledu] I loved the Snow White episode
[Steve *shimp*] The scripts don't read as funny to me as the performances... I don't know, especially with those early ones.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Yeah, you may have heard my story of pounding on the steering wheel of my car in frustration when I had a show where a trio of Kenny Baker, Dennis Day, and Larry Stevens was cut.
[Krledu] Are all the scripts at UCLA
[yhtapmys] Laura, they're very rooted in vaudeville. Far more so than the late 40s shows.
[Steve *shimp*] From a historical standpoint it would be great to have them out there. I just don't know if I'd curl up in bed with a book of Canada Dry scripts.
[Laura Leff] Krledu - Yup, and I've handled them all.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Very true.
[Krledu] But it would be interesting to have a book with all the scripts though
[yhtapmys] What?! They cut that!
[Laura Leff] Steve - You never know...you might. They just might put you to sleep sooner.
[Laura Leff] Yht - My reaction too.
[Laura Leff] Well, one caveat. The script of Mary's first appearance is missing.
[Krledu] I think it would be nice to read what was written cause sometimes you don't always catch was was said
[Steve *shimp*] I think I'd rather see George Balzer's book first...
[Laura Leff] Steve - Which would be much easier anyway, if the family's amenable to it.
[Laura Leff] I had to exercise tremendous restraint not to curl up on the floor in a fetal position and sobbing when I realized Mary's first appearance is missing.
[Laura Leff] I'm hoping it's in some other box and I'll find it some day.
[yhtapmys] What did Mary do with it?
[Laura Leff] Yht - More like what did Jack or Harry Baldwin do with it. They're all bound by Harry.
[Steve *shimp*] Bound and GAGGED by Harry. Get it.
[yhtapmys] You mean Harry lost it? Like his hair?
[Laura Leff] I have a feeling someone wanted to refer back to it for historical purposes, pulled it from the binder, and never replaced it.
[Krledu] Laura, What about George Balzar's book?
[Laura Leff] Krl - I've been reading the manuscript.
[Krledu] Any good?
[Laura Leff] I took it to the film festival with me yesterday and read most of it between films.
[Maxwell] It's gotta be frustrating with only a handful of those scripts missing that THAT particular one is.
[yhtapmys] I wish Frank Nelson had written a book.
[Laura Leff] It relies very heavily on excerpting from the scripts, and has little new information, but there is some.
[Steve *shimp*] Yeeeeeeeeesssss.
[Krledu] Just curios, Did Frank Nelson and Mary get along?
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Oh, I can't even begin to put it into words.
[Steve *shimp*] Did Mary and anyone get along?
[yhtapmys] She and her charge card got along.
[Maxwell] Did Mary get along with herself?
[Laura Leff] Krl - I'd have to go back to my interview with Frank to see what he said about her, but I
[Krledu] I heard Frank Nelson on an interview and he had some cutting, allbeit well covered remarks
[Laura Leff] know that someone passed along a story that they were supposedly told by Frank Nelson that was harsh against Mary.
[yhtapmys] Frank had a wonderful radio history, on and off air, and it's a shame he never told his story.
[Laura Leff] Krl - Do you remember anything specific?
[JBDarnell] i heard an excellent bob hope show recently and nelson appeared as a floorwalker...hope tells nelson that he's supposed to be nice to the customers. nelson has a great reply: i have to be nice to all but two, you and jack benny.
[Laura Leff] I found a critical remark in Balzer's manuscript about Eddie Cantor, which reminded me of a critical story about him that Frank Nelson told me.
[Krledu] I was surprised at the interview. He also said that he wished he had never had the character that he played on Jack's show because he was type cast ever since
[Laura Leff] Krledu - Really! Where was this interview?
[yhtapmys] That's odd, Krl.
[yhtapmys] Gale Gordon was typecast and he made a pretty good living from it.
[Krledu] I have it on one of my dvd's that I got from a group on Yahoo. I will find it.
[JBDarnell] yeah, most of the character actors then had a particular type
[Krledu] Yea I was just very surprised
[Laura Leff] Krledu - It's possible I've already got it in the audio library and just haven't heard it yet.
[yhtapmys] Yeah, JB, look at someone like Sheldon Leonard.
[Steve *shimp*] Santa Tout!
[yhtapmys] He was typecast, too.
[Krledu] He was on the Benny show for years
[yhtapmys] Santa Tout is great.
[Laura Leff] With Harry Shearer (Santa tout)!
[yhtapmys] Is that Harry?
[Laura Leff] I think that's Harry's best performance on the Benny show.
[Krledu] I love Sheldon Leanard. I just found out that he played in Its a Wonderful life
[Steve *shimp*] Great bit. Is this the only time the tout isn't pestering Jack?
[Laura Leff] Yeah, the bartender.
[Krledu] harry Shearer, is that the kid on that program?
[JBDarnell] and in the second half of IAWL he's a similar brash type
[Laura Leff] Steve - Gosh...I think there may have been one other time, but I can't remember the specifics...
[Laura Leff] Krl - With Santa Tout? Sure is!
[yhtapmys] Laura, was Harlow really Don's middle name?
[Krledu] I LOVE that kid? I laughed so hard
[Laura Leff] Every time I see Star Trek's "A Piece of the Action" I keep thinking I'm going to see Sheldon Leonard.
[Steve *shimp*] And that kid grew up to be Mr. Burns.
[Krledu] Speaking of Don, which wife was the actress?
[yhtapmys] The last one.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Not absolutely sure on that. I think they may have just made it up for his son.
[Laura Leff] It's a funny name. Sounds like half of MarshMallow
[Laura Leff] Krledu - Lois
[Krledu] They used that middle name a couple of times
[yhtapmys] Well, it's on this Christmas show. The kid came on the TV years.
[Krledu] Was't his other wife on tehh show too, uh Peggy?
[yhtapmys] All I can think of is Johnson's Wax when I hear "Harlow".
[Laura Leff] Krl - I don't think she was actually an actress. Just his wife at the time.
[Maxwell] Harlow Wilcox!
[Laura Leff] Resisting a pun...can only go blue with that one.
[Maxwell] LL Good idea.
[yhtapmys] Oh, geez, Earle Ross is on this show.
[Steve *shimp*] Wasn't there some Polish princess Don was married to as well?
[Laura Leff] Yeah, I don't have any of Don's wives playing his wife on the radio show.
[Krledu] Oh ok
[Laura Leff] Steve - Yup, I think that was about his third wife.
[yhtapmys] Yeah, Steve, I put up the divorce thing on the message board some time ago.
[Laura Leff] Krl - But I know Lois appeared with him on TV.
[yhtapmys] I found the newspaper story.
[yhtapmys] She sounds like a flake.
[Laura Leff] I think the grounds were mental cruelty, wasn't it?
[Steve *shimp*] Lois is the one who appears on the TV "New Tenant" radio recreation IIRC
[Maxwell] Steve, that's right.
[Fred Allen] a Grapenut flake?
[Krledu] I just got done listenign to the ones after Don messed up the Be Lucky Go Happy
[Krledu] She was on then. I don't like her voice
[Laura Leff] Lois, you mean?
[Steve *shimp*] Didn't Don and Lois also have some local TV show they co-hosted in their later years?
[Laura Leff] What was her maiden name?
[Steve *shimp*] Corbett?
[Laura Leff] Steve - Yes, in Palm Springs.
[Steve *shimp*] Corbin?
[Maxwell] Corbet or Corbett.
[Steve *shimp*] Something like htat.
[Laura Leff] Yes, that's right. Thanks.
[Laura Leff] Corbett
[yhtapmys] I think it was Corbett,.
[Maxwell] Lois Corbett, Space Cadet!
[Laura Leff] Started with the radio series 12/24/50
[Laura Leff] I was looking under Wilson...forgot her professional name.
[Laura Leff] She did appear on a number of radio shows.
[yhtapmys] Wilson was married four times. His second wife was Peggy Ann Kent, daughter of 20th Century Fox President Sidney R. Kent. They were divorced in December, 1942. The same month the divorce was final, Wilson married Polish countess Marusia Radunska. This ma
[Laura Leff] Sam Perrin's wife's name was Peggy.
[yhtapmys] This marriage ended in divorce 7 years later. Wilson finally found a lasting partnership with fourth wife, radio actress Lois Corbet.
[Brad] I'm running a little late, good night folks.
[Maxwell] Good night, Brad
User Brad has logged out.
[Laura Leff] Funny, I thought he was married five times. Maybe I was confusing it with the six delicious Jell-O flavors
[Maxwell] You took the average.
[Laura Leff] Yeah
[yhtapmys] I thought so, too, Laura. But Wikipedia never lies
[Maxwell] Except when it does.
[Laura Leff] Ah, never ever
[Steve *shimp*] There may be a couple annulments in there somewhere.
[Laura Leff] I thought his marriage to the countess was much shorter, but I haven't really spent a lot of time researching it.
[Krledu] Kinda surpsrised me to find out he had been married four times, I don't know why though
[Laura Leff] Thought it was more like a year.
[Laura Leff] Krl - I've wondered aloud about that for some years.
[Laura Leff] Seems like Don kept to himself personally. No one knows a lot about him.
[Steve *shimp*] If your husband wouldn't shut up about Jell-O you'd leave him too.
[Laura Leff] Even George's manuscript only gives him a page and a half.
[Fred Allen] Gotta run. Brothers and Sisters is on
[Laura Leff] Steve -
[yhtapmys] OK, Fred.
User Fred Allen has logged out.
[Laura Leff] Have fun, Fred
[Steve *shimp*] Seeya Fred
[yhtapmys] And Elliott Lewis is on the show.
[Laura Leff] Which brings us back to do
[Krledu] I was trying to do some research on Don wilson but didn't find much
[yhtapmys] I really like the Christmas casts.
[Laura Leff] krl - I've never found much.
[yhtapmys] Krl, the only stuff I've found is about marriages and divorces.
[Laura Leff] Yht - They're always a huge list. Were a pain in the tuchus for 39 Forever.
[Krledu] You would think that he wouldhave been interview being the Announcer of the Year several times
[Laura Leff] Whenever I'd come to an Xmas show, I'd load up my cast database with about 20 blank lines.
[yhtapmys] Oddly enough, each wife charged mental cruelty.
[Steve *shimp*] That Jell-O ranting again. I tell you.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Yeah, makes you go "hmm" doesn't it?
[Maxwell] yht That was an all-purpose reason for filing back then.
[Steve *shimp*] No "no-fault" divorce
[Maxwell] Nowadays it's irreconcilable differences.
[Laura Leff] OK, good to know. I was wondering if Don was an.......
[Krledu] Maybe it was something you just said to get a divorce
[Maxwell] Krledu That's pretty much it.
[yhtapmys] Laura, I'm sure somewhere in the files of the Rocky Mountain News there's an old feature piece on Don.
[Laura Leff] Yht - You
[Laura Leff] You'd think.
[Laura Leff] Him being the home town boy and all. Maybe Palm Springs as well.
[Krledu] Was what Laura?
[yhtapmys] Oh, right.
[yhtapmys] He did a radio show there.
[Laura Leff] I've asked lots of people about Don, and no one has much to say.
[Maxwell] All I know is that he liked Luckies, Jell-o and Candygrams.
[Laura Leff] I've heard one anti-Semitic comment about him, but never been able to confirm it with any other source.
[Laura Leff] They talk about his laugh and his diction, and that's all they can remember.
[Laura Leff] Now here's something, actually...
[JBDarnell] hmm selective memory perhaps
[yhtapmys] JB, I'm guessing he didn't socalise with anybody.
[Laura Leff] In George's manuscript, he makes an interesting observation
[Laura Leff] I've heard assertions that Mary is the one "sane" on in the cast
[yhtapmys] If he's doing several radio shows, there isn't much spare time.
[Laura Leff] much like Colman's comment of her being the "normal one"
[JBDarnell] good point yht
[Laura Leff] But George points out that Don may actually be considered the "normal one"
[Laura Leff] I wonder if Don serves the same purpose as Zeppo
[Krledu] I wonder why he would make that observation?
[Laura Leff] A character to "anchor" the rest of the cast.
[JBDarnell] he didn't want to hang around all those kooks more than he had too
[yhtapmys] Hmm. Hard to say, Laura.
[Steve *shimp*] Don's character changes a little though. He starts off as kind of the "intellectual" and later on becomes more of the patsy for Jack.
[Steve *shimp*] As much as anyone can be a patsy for Jack.
[Krledu] All the characters were protrayed larger than life on the show but Don's character was always the down to earth one
[Laura Leff] Don't give up the ship
[Maxwell] Except he was portrayed as physically larger than life.
[Laura Leff] What Maxwell said
[Krledu] The Pilgrims landed in cape Cod, " NO Plymouth rock"
[Krledu] True Maxwell
[Laura Leff] Earlier on, Don Bestor and other orchestra leaders played more of that intellectual role.
[Laura Leff] Phil certainly changed that.
[Maxwell] Do you like Kipling?...I don't know. I never Kippled.
[Laura Leff] Kipling and crumpets...mmm hmm...
[Krledu] I liked Phil;s character on the show. It added flavor
[Laura Leff] Who's heard Phil in his first year on the show?
[yhtapmys] I have,
[Steve *shimp*] I have.
[Steve *shimp*] Very subdued!
[Krledu] I have
[Laura Leff] Yeah!
[Maxwell] I have.
[Krledu] Very differen
[Krledu] But it didn't last to long
[Laura Leff] Talk about a character changing!
[Maxwell] Much different than what he became.
[yhtapmys] The "watch" running gag really didn't work.
[yhtapmys] Once he stopped being an antagonist, his character worked.
[Laura Leff] Yht - No, although it did give Eddie Anderson a pre-Rochester engagement.
[Krledu] Well even Dennis's role changed but not as much as Phil's did
[Laura Leff] Phil first started coming out of his shell in the Minstrel Show.
[yhtapmys] Phil was terrific and the show really lost something when he left.
[Krledu] I wonder did Phil come out of his shell, or did the writers let him out of his shell
[Krledu] I agree
[Krledu] Bob Crosby just doesn't have the flair
[yhtapmys] Klr, it's chicken and egg.
[Laura Leff] I'll leave that one to people who've seen stuff like So This is Harris
[yhtapmys] The writers get ideas based on what they hear.
[Maxwell] yht I think it lost a lot when Phil was relegated to the first 15 minutes.
[Laura Leff] I think he was doing a much quieter character at that time.
[yhtapmys] Then they expand the character,
[Laura Leff] Of course Phil was posing nude before that, so what can you do.
[yhtapmys] Well, Max, it did. But I never really noticed that until someone mentioned it.
[Maxwell] I suddenly feel like taking a shower.
[Laura Leff] With a peeled potato?
[Maxwell] With a bevy of beauties.
[Steve *shimp*] I finally watched that shower clip. Bizarro!
[yhtapmys] Laura, you mentioned Bestor. I still like the first season of Jell-O that I've heard.
[Krledu] I'm surprised Jack let Phil do his own show with the cut it put on his own show
[Laura Leff] Someone sent me a copy of a Phil Harris radio show pre-Jack...he was pretty soft and subdued on it as well.
[Maxwell] I think Phil in the shower was a high point in the history of American cinema.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Yes, they were starting to get the characters at that point
[yhtapmys] The show has a far looser feel, even with the structured "news" segment at the outset.
[Laura Leff] Still playing around with it, but you had Jack, Mary, and Don by then.
[yhtapmys] The funny thing is...
[yhtapmys] I can hear gags and think they'd never work 15 years later because the characters have changed.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Like Mary being a silly man-chaser?
[Laura Leff] Or Jack Benny's "pest girl" as the papers put it...
[yhtapmys] Well, silly.
[yhtapmys] I guess the man-chaser stuff lasted into the early 40s.
[Laura Leff] She's still kind of a man-chaser at times through the war. Talking about going out with soldiers, etc.
[JBDarnell] "pest girl"...Orkin Woman of 1936?
[Krledu] As the years wore on, Mary became more lethargic in her character
[Laura Leff] You know, I've been asked so often about Jack's character being gay, but I'm never, ever asked about Mary's character being a lesbian.
[yhtapmys] That's what you get for hanging out in the Castro.
[Laura Leff] Although in Amiri Baraka's play "Jell-O" which is a sendup of Jack's show, it does describe her part as being "dykey".
[Laura Leff] Yht - Well, yeah...guilty as charged.
[Maxwell] Funny, I'd never considered either...even with Jack's walk.
[JBDarnell] lol...i seem to recall that. there's an academic article on Jack's "gayness"
[Laura Leff] Mary's character just never goes out with any men after about that time.
[Laura Leff] JB - Yeah, I got a copy of it. Just haven't gotten around to reading it yet because I know it's pretty far out there.
[Laura Leff] Making assertions that Rochester waking up Jack with "Boss, wake up" as inferring that they were sharing a bed.
[yhtapmys] Gee, Laura, you mean Mary and Pauline......
[JBDarnell] it's fairly well done with examples from the show
[Maxwell] Except we know that Rochester sleeps in a room with no windows.
[yhtapmys] Oh, hell, you can take all kinds of stuff out of context and "prove" anything.
[Laura Leff] Yht - Yeah, Pauline wanting to be a dixie cup...
[JBDarnell] focuses more on how other characters interact with jack, rather than the rochester relationship
[Steve *shimp*] I heard Mary was dating Dennis' mom.
[Laura Leff] "America's Boyfriend that Can't Get a Date"
[Laura Leff] That's the name of the article.
[yhtapmys] I thought it was Confidential expose on Rock Hudson
[Maxwell] Somebody tell Gladys.
[Laura Leff] Gladys is a plumber...remember?
[JBDarnell] thats the one! there's another decent academic piece on the show, can't recall what it is
[Laura Leff] Gladys is Jack's beard...
[Laura Leff] But whenever the writers have been questioned about it, they all strongly say that they never intended subtexts.
[Laura Leff] So anyhow...
[Laura Leff] What else Benny-wise is on folks' minds tonight?
[Steve *shimp*] I think the show just finds humor around gender...
[yhtapmys] Well, I've just finished listening to the show.
[Maxwell] One thing of interest on the net for a week starting Tuesday:
[Steve *shimp*] We've talked about Dennis but there ARE a lot of "butch" women gags - Babe, Iris Adrian, Verna Felton....
[yhtapmys] Yeah, but Babe got married a pile of times.
[Maxwell] Chuck Schaden's Dec. 1 show has the Town Hall Tonight from 12/22/37 where Jack tries to sell Fred Allen his Maxwell.
[Steve *shimp*] Will have to check that out Max, I've never heard that one.
[Krledu] I have one thing to say about Dennis, WOW what a voice?
[Maxwell] Through Monday, they have the Christmas Shopping show from 12/17/50.
[Laura Leff] Wow what a talent
[yhtapmys] Dennis was a great find for the show.
[Laura Leff] Oh say...Chuck Schaden may be looking for help from some volunteers in the near future.
[Maxwell] I'm in the area. I'd be glad to.
[Laura Leff] He asked for something which I didn't have, but I suggested he post to the Forum and ask for volunteers to find it.
[Laura Leff] He's looking for shows that have a build up to Jack saying "WELL!"
[Laura Leff] He's looking to use them to promote the new Benny book "Well!"
[Krledu] What do you mean shows that build up? Shows where he says that?
[Steve *shimp*] There's a great Burns and Allen show with George ranting at him for awhile before the "Well!"
[Maxwell] The build up in the shows where he says it?
[Laura Leff] Krl - Yes...that someone is saying something to him which he punctuates with saying "Well!"
[Maxwell] Got ya.
[Laura Leff] Steve - I bet that would work.
[yhtapmys] There's the Benny parody on The Big Show where it happens.
[Laura Leff] So let's all post the findings to the Forum, and Chuck can grab them from there.
[yhtapmys] Then Fred Allen ad-lib a well/oil joke.
[Maxwell] Sounds like a plan.
[Laura Leff] Anything else? Or shall we call it good for this month?
[Krledu] What is the show for next month and when is the chat?
[yhtapmys] Then Laura can put them in Vol. 3.
[yhtapmys] We're doing a 'tenant' next month?
[Steve *shimp*] I should probably head on out. Where did the time go?
[Laura Leff] I think we had a request for a New Tenant show for next month...any specifics?
[Maxwell] I'm good for the month.
[Maxwell] How about the very first one?
[Laura Leff] Let's see...chat would be January 6
[Laura Leff] Or there's the one that Fred Allen stands in on.
[Krledu] I thought we were going to do the Beaver's do the show?
[yhtapmys] The first one had Gerry Mohr, right?
[Laura Leff] Krl - I think we were going to do that one February.
[Maxwell] Krledu I think we decided on Feb. for that.
[Maxwell] Yup, there is an echo, LL.
[yhtapmys] Yeah, what they said.
[yhtapmys] An echo? We doing that show, too?
[Laura Leff] Maxwell - Definitely with you and me tonight.
[Laura Leff] So the first New Tenant?
[Krledu] what year is that?
[Maxwell] Sounds good.
[yhtapmys] Why not, Laura.
[Steve *shimp*] Happy holidays all, and see you in the new year...whichever new tenant it may be.
[Laura Leff] Krl - I think it's pre-1942...I'd have to pull Vol 1 to see.
[Maxwell] So long Steve, and happy holidays
[Krledu] Ok Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year everyone
User Steve *shimp* has logged out.
[Laura Leff] 2/2/39
[Laura Leff] 1/1/39
[Laura Leff] Dang
[Krledu] Ok Thanks Laura
[yhtapmys] Ah, that's better.
[Maxwell] Yeah, 2/2 doesn't quite seem right for some reason.
[Krledu] News years in Frebruary
[Laura Leff] OK...have a wonderful holiday season
[Laura Leff] Groundhog new tenant
[yhtapmys] Thanks, Laura.
[Maxwell] Well, if you can have Christmas in July....
[Laura Leff] And June in January
[Maxwell] Happy Holidays to everyone. See you in 2008!
[yhtapmys] And May in West.
[Laura Leff] And on that note...
[Laura Leff] Happy New Year everyone!