<Alex Buck> I figured that Bob would be one of the topics tonight
<Michael> Hi Laura
How's everyone doing tonight?
<kurt> Laura's here?
<JelloAgain> Hi Laura
<Michael> :Not so good...
<kurt> (Sound of orchestra playing Love in Bloom)
What's up, Michael? Sad over Bob's death?
<Alex Buck> Hello Laura! I wanted to let you know just what a classy lady you are. The photo tribute to Bob was a nice touch.
Why, thanks Alex! I appreciate your kind words.
<kurt> The reassessment of Bob has already begun
<Michael> Personal stuff mainly... although Bob's passing hasn't helped much
<JelloAgain> It's been a while since I've been here, but I too have to add kudos for your wonderful photo tribute to Bob Hope
Well, hopefully we'll be able to lift your spirits here Michael.
<Michael> I'm sure you all will.... like always :-)
Thanks. When I sat down to put something together, my first thought was for the various great photos I have of Jack and Bob. The rest was easy.
<kurt> The 1948 Hope/Benny show is particularly funny
Isn't that a scream? All the ad-libbing that Jack did with very few people.
<Michael> Perhaps we could use those shows for furure discussions?
<Michael> future even
<JelloAgain> do you know what year that color photo of Jack, Bob & Lucy is from? It's really a great shot
I'm happy to use them for discussion tonight, if you'd like.
<Alex Buck> Not wanting to get political here, but Rush Limbaugh had a great point regarding Bob. Considering what he accomplished and the amount of awards he won; its hard to feel sorry for a life that was so complete
JA - I'm not positive, I'd guess about 1968.
<Michael> I haven't listened tot hem yet
<JelloAgain> thanks..what a reunion that must've been beyond the pearly gates!
Michael - I'll probably leave them up for some time, so you can grab them later.
<Michael> you think they all met in Allen's Alley?
<Michael> thanks Laura
So I figured that Bob would be a major topic of discussion tonight, so let's go there.
Kurt - What did you mean about the reassessment beginning?
<kurt> Christopher Hitchens wrote a piece for Slate in which he said Hope was never funny.
<kurt> Not that Hitchens ever said anything funny himself.
<Michael> What was Hitchens smoking????????
<Alex Buck> sour grapes
What was his argument for that assertion?
<JelloAgain> it sounds like Christopher Hitchens wouldn't know funny if he stepped in it!
<Michael> right on JA!
<kurt> His reason being that Hope never took risks.
Well, Glenn Miller never took musical risks, but that doesn't mean that his music's not good
<Michael> Hi Heidi
<Heidi> hello, all!
<JelloAgain> hiya Heidi
<kurt> The other critique of Hope -- which sticks -- is that he kept his career going with captive audiences, meaning the GIs.
<Alex Buck> A lot of GI's out there would disagree with this guy's "no risk" line
Funny that he'd say that Hope didn't take risks when so many people claimed that he invented some comedic aspects (some of which Jack invented).
<kurt> There's a point to that, too, but Hope, during that time, could still sell out whatever civilian venue in which he appeared.
<JelloAgain> Amen, Alex!!
<Michael> Hi Brad
I remember when he did one of his specials from the then newly-opened DeVos Hall in my hometown, in conjunction with the opening of the G.R. Ford museum.
It was one of the biggest things ever to hit Grand Rapids!
<kurt> I saw Hope perform live just once.
<JelloAgain> I had a little advanced knowledge that Bob was slipping fast. About 2 weeks before, they almost lost him. It didn't make the news, but the family made all the funeral arrangements at that time.
<kurt> Then at the British Embassy in 1998.
I saw Hope live at the Television Academy Hall of Fame. He presented the award to George Burns and had to help him up on stage.
<Alex Buck> I can just imagine a tee shirt of Mount Rushmore with Bob's face added
<kurt> I saw a memo at the Library of Congress from 2001 in which it was reported, "He's headed downhill fast."
JA - Dolores had been calling groups like the Friars and the Players as far back as January suggesting that they arrange memorials.
<Michael> Or how about a monument on a different mountain with Bob, Jack, and several others?
<JelloAgain> there's a photo like that on the cover of his presidential book "Dear Prez I Wanna Tell Ya"
<Alex Buck> I heard that Libby Dole suggested that they bury Bob in Arlington
There's a question...who would be on the Mount Rushmore of comedy?
<JelloAgain> yes, Bob was basically in a vegatative state for the last couple of years.
<kurt> Depends on what kind of comedy
Kurt - Good point.
<Michael> You mean besides Bob, Jack, George & Gracie....?
What about Lucille Ball?
<kurt> Hitchens and others also claim Hope on radio wasn't funny.
<Heidi> we need more than four faces
Kurt - They should download the Hope show I have on the tribute page.
<kurt> Which only proves that he never listened to any of Hope's radio programs.
<JelloAgain> Hitchens should go jump off Mount Rushmore!!
<Brad> Eddie Anderson. Can you imagine the difficulties he must have had to overcome? A candidate for a "Comedy Mount Rushmore" if there ever was one.
<Michael> right on
<_bill> chaplin, marx brohers, mark twain
<Michael> I think we'll need a whole range of mountains :-)
Brad - I'll second that.
<kurt> Bob wasn't buried in Arlington because they wouldn't allow a big enough memorial
<Michael> keaton and lloyyd too
<Alex Buck> I have to put in a vote for Buster Keaton since he was born near my home town
<Heidi> poor Hitchens. he's got to have a pretty sad life if the only way he can get people to mention his name is to write a scathing, mean-spirited, disrespectful piece about an american legend.
<_bill> victor borge
<Michael> Will Rodgers
<JelloAgain> Amen, Heidi!!
<Alex Buck> Ernie would get my vote before Sid Caesar
Well said, Heidi.
<Brad> Mel Blanc...
Good one, Brad
<Heidi> woody allen?
<kurt> Well, what was obvious was that Hitchens wasn't familiar with Hope's radio or stage work.
<Heidi> or his early movies, either
<Alex Buck> Nah, I think we have to limit our mountain discussion to dead comedics
<kurt> Gleason was a derivative comic
<Michael> Gleason yes.... Woody no
<kurt> Red Skelton was a derivative comic
What do you mean by "derivative" comic?
<Alex Buck> I'm not a fan of calculus
Alex - LOL
<kurt> Derivative means his best material originated with others
<kurt> Skelton borrowed from Buster Keaton
<Alex Buck> Oh, that would be Milton Berle
Kurt - So explain how that applies to Gleason and Skelton.
<Heidi> Keaton wrote for skelton
<Michael> a lot of people borrowed from Keaton....
<kurt> Gleason's slow burn came from other comics
<JelloAgain> stolen, not borrowed!
<JelloAgain> in berle's case
<kurt> Keaton wrote the movie bits that Skelton did
<Alex Buck> Skelton redid Keaton's General
<kurt> Berle stold from everyone, but that was his whole shtick, going back to the 1930s
Well, I think of, say, Guzzler's Gin. What was the story about that being "borrowed" from discarded script pages from the Fred Allen show?
<Brad> Sad that just about everyone I'm thinking about is dead...haven't eliminated any candidates by their being alive. :-(
Kurt - Even Al Boasberg started that shtick for him.
<kurt> The Guzzler's Gin bit originated with Fred Allen, yes.
<Michael> How about adding Chester lauck & Norris Goff (aka Lum & Abner) to the Mountain?
I definitely think Danny Kaye should be on it, the more I think about it.
Michael - Well, they're already close to the Ozarks.
<Michael> I agree laura
<Heidi> what about carole lombard?
Heidi - Interesting observation...she was a good comedienne, but that's not how I immediately think of her.
<Alex Buck> I didn't realize that Lum & Abner was only a 15 minute show
Kurt - Is that show still up on the Crosby site (about...uh...Lombard)?
<kurt> When you look at Jean Harlow, you can see how Lucille Ball borrowed from her
<Michael> I saw her in Nothing Sacred.... and she was a riot :-)
Alex - It was at some periods, a full half hour others.
<Heidi> she is more of a comedic actress than a "comedienne," I guess
<kurt> No, it was replaced by a Hope/Crosby tribute
Sort of like Cary Grant is a comedic actor than a "comedian."
<JelloAgain> nope, it's gone from the Crosby site. That was a series made in 1975.
<Alex Buck> Lombard was the only saving grace to Hitchcock's comedy Mr & Mrs Smith
<kurt> Lum & Abner was a 15-minute show in the 1930s
<Alex Buck> Jack was really doing them a favor to stop by
<Heidi> I think Rebecca had more laughs.
Kurt - Well, I saved it. But I couldn't give it that same description on our site!!!
<kurt> Carole Lombard, according to Der Bingle, liked to say embarrassing things in public places
<JelloAgain> I meant the Crosby show re Lombard was taped in 1975
<Michael> I like how Jack got the two of them to laughing...
Alex - I asked the Prez of the Lum and Abner Society, and he theorized that Jack did it because Andy Devine and Tuffy Goff were friends.
<Heidi> Lombard had a filthy mouth!
<JelloAgain> that she did, Heidi.
<kurt> Andy Devine, nee Jeremiah Schwartz
<Heidi> I think william powell said she was the only woman he'd ever heard use the f-word
Heidi - Yes...she would say things that would even be shocking today!
<JelloAgain> But as Bing said "she sounded like one of the boys when she said them"
<kurt> Bing heard her use the f-word, too
<Michael> that's amazing
<JelloAgain> I have a recording session where Bing uses the f-word!
<kurt> I heard a Bing story the other day from Lina Romay
I just got a record set that includes a private record of Al Jolson berating Ruby Keeler and saying that he's going to beat her.
<Heidi> beat her, physically? like beat her up?
<JelloAgain> Lina Romay, the featured singer for Bing's Philco series in 1946??
<kurt> Holy moley!
<kurt> One and the same. She's now 81
<Roger> LL - How did they record that one?
Heidi - Yah...my jaw was dropped for most of when I was listening to the recording. It's amazing.
Roger - He did it at Brunswick about 1929, I think.
<kurt> I take it Joley ad-libbed?
<Michael> Hi comedianbrad
<JelloAgain> Wow, that's amazing! Did she continue singing? (Lina)
Kurt - Hard to tell, but I think so. He clips along such that it sounds like he may have at least made notes.
<kurt> She left the movies in the 1950s when she started her family
<comedianbrad> Greetings...sorry to be a bit late. Just returned from a 96 yr. old B-day party!
Two cuts later is the soundtrack of Jack Benny in Bright Moments!
<Michael> Hi Ari
<JelloAgain> my jaw dropped when I heard the Benny / Burns stag party
<Alex Buck> it latest that long?
Hey, Ari! Glad to see you back.
<JelloAgain> Benny uses the f-word on that! lol
It's the earliest known recording of Jack.
<Heidi> he does not!
<Alex Buck> is the stag party available?
Alex - Yup...it's in the IJBFC library.
<Michael> in the restricted section?
Heidi - Oh yes he does. He was quite embarassed when a copy leaked out.
<JelloAgain> he does...he says something about his writers not giving him a "f-ing thing"
Michael - Sort of. We do have a language advisory on it.
JA - That's right.
<JelloAgain> the burns bit about the eskimoes' machine is funny too! ;)
Hey comedianbrad...we were trying to decide who should be on the comedy Mount Rushmore. What do you think?
Jack also says that Mary doesn't know he's at a stagparty...she think's hes at a whorehouse (pardon the language)
<Michael> how many do we have on there as of now?
<JelloAgain> lol, that's right!
<comedianbrad> Benny, Burns, Hope & Chaplin (two Englishmen?, but, yes...)
<Roger> How abour Groucho?
Michael - More than four!
<JelloAgain> the marx bros would take up the whole monument!
<Alex Buck> If you put Groucho up there than someone will demand all of his brothers
<Heidi> well, not gummo.
Roger - How about a separate mountain for the Marx Brothers?
<Michael> I think we've already got all the Mrx brothers up there
<Ari> I just got here. Was any mention made of Benny's close friend Bob Hope's passing?
<Michael> about 10 minutes worth
<JelloAgain> in the last 20 seconds?
Ari - Oh yes...feel free to talk about it.
<Roger> LL - sounds good. Laurel & Hardy still crack me up.
<comedianbrad> I like Groucho, but think he would have been more honored to be put on the "writer's" Mt. Rushmore.
<Alex Buck> Here's an angle - will Hope be better remembered than Benny?
<Ari> How about Uncle Miltie for Mt Rushmore?
I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I have to echo that while I'm sad that there's no one else of that era alive...I'm not sad for Hope's passing as a human being
<Heidi> he earned his rest, I'd say.
<kurt> Benny's comedy has endured because it's based on character. Hope's movies will last, though
He was in such poor shape physically, that I can see...yeah, what Heidi said.
<Michael> I understand what you're saying Laura
<Brad> LL - you are right, it was time.
<Michael> yes it was
<Alex Buck> It would have been selfish for us to wish otherwise
<comedianbrad> I believe it was Hope's competitive nature that kept alive to 100, not wanting to be bested by anyone..
<kurt> When Hope declined, it was all of a dudden. Even Norman Schwarzkopf noticed it in 1990
<Ari> Then I admit, I am selfish
<kurt> He said Hope was "in his own little world" when he wasn't in front of an audience
<Michael> that's why we have the Radio shows movies etc.... through them.... everyone is Immortal :-)
<Ari> Did he outlive George Burns?
<Alex Buck> My wife brought up the point that Bob didn't make his goal 100 years like George Burns did
When I saw him in...gosh...I guess it was about 1988, he looked like he could have been in his 50s. Then things changed very suddenly.
<Heidi> yes, by a few months
Alex - What do you mean? He turned 100 in May.
<comedianbrad> Close call...Burns lived from his B-day Jan. 20 to early March of 96..I have not done the math yet
<Roger> To piggy-back Laura, although I've tried to appreciate Hope, I don't see what's so funny about him.
It was really, really close between the two of them.
<JelloAgain> Burns lived 45 days past 100, Hope 58
<kurt> Of course, there's still the theory that Bob was born in 1901
Kurt - Really? Based on what source?
<comedianbrad> Thanks, JA I was wondering but hadn't dug out the calendar...
<kurt> And my own theory that the family had had him on ice since February
<kurt> That's in the Arthur Marx book
<Heidi> I thought George only made it a few days past his 100th. I must be remembering it wrong.
<Ari> That was close, a mere 13 days out of over a century
<Alex Buck> George's later humor was age based. One of his books was how to live to 100 or more. I never had the impression that Bob made longevity a part of his act or personal goal. Burns was the one that he wasn't going to retire until he was the only one left in the business.
<kurt> But I think it's possible that Bob switched birth dates with one of his brothers to shave a couple of years off his age
George used to say, "I can't die, I'm booked."
<Michael> am wondering why Kurt
<kurt> If Burns hadn't fallen, he would have made it a while longer
I seem to remember that Bob and my grandfather were born on almost the exact same date...for what that's worth to anyone...
<kurt> A lot of basic data on Bob Hope simply doesn't exist in documentation
<kurt> A marriage license with Dolores, for instance
<JelloAgain> Bob & JFK shared the same birthdate
Kurt - Old country. Familiar story.
<Ari> Burns was always seen with young ladies. He said he was asked why he doesn't go out with women his own age. He said he responded "there aren't any"
<kurt> A divorce for first wife Grace Troxell
<comedianbrad> A lot of the early stars took advantage of the poor record keeping of the late 19th Century
Bob was seen with young ladies, but you couldn't spread that around too much because of Dolores!
I'm going to try a little more to find Jack's birth certificate some time.
<Heidi> how old is Delores anyway? she looks great.
<Michael> Good Luck Laura
<Ari> I've heard Jack Benny say that George Burns wass his best friend. But one time he said that Burns & Hope are his 2 closest friends
Is it Delores or Dolores? I've seen both spellings.
<JelloAgain> her birthday is May 27, 2 days before Bob's
<comedianbrad> Laura, if you do find it, I'll bet there really is an eraser whole over the birth year!
Ari - You can tell that the two men really liked each other just by listening to the shows I've got on the Hope memorial page.
comedianbrad - Har har! What's there where it says "date of birth"? A hole! A hole? Yeah, we erased it once too often!
<Alex Buck> I love the picture of George, Jack, and Bob on the memorial page. When do you suppose that was taken?
<Michael> Also... who else could get away with stealing Jack's pants like Bob did in a 1954 TV show?
<JelloAgain> a more visual example was on the Benny 20th ann. TV spec in 1970, when Bob sings Thansk for the memory to Jack with special lyrics
Well, I want to really shake out this 1893 vs. 1894 question.
JA - Ah, that's a great scene. Been thinking about that a lot recently.
<Ari> I want to listen to those shows
<comedianbrad> A question for Irving Fein, perhaps???
<JelloAgain> then Jack sings "to the tune of Love in Bloom "can it be the plaque, that set you back, at least a buck & a half..."
Michael - Remember Don in Jack's pants?
<Michael> I think he'd be a good place to start
<Alex Buck> How old must Irving be?
<Michael> and jack in Dons
comedianbrad - You mean 1893 vs. 1894?
<JelloAgain> (Bob gave Jack a plaque on that show)
<comedianbrad> Yes, Laura
Alex - I can't remember exactly, but I think he's a touch over 90.
<Alex Buck> Irving would surely have some info on skeletons in the closet
Hmmm...I'm pretty sure that Irving would say 1894. That's what's on the sarcophagus. The only 1893 record is the 1900 census.
<Alex Buck> Census takers weren't always arcurate
<Alex Buck> neither are typers
<Ari> According to Jack Benny's bio, Benny was first offered that role on Big Broadcast of 1938. He turned it down. Hope credited Benny with his early success because of that. Benny refused to take credit
<comedianbrad> Also, I would like to suggest to Irving that he be a bit more lenient with George & Jack's images like the Stooges family. They're EVERYWHERE! Less so on Benny & Burns
Ari - Yes, that's absolutely right.
<JelloAgain> was she bitter about leavingt he show so soon?
<JelloAgain> the show
<Ari> If Benny had accepted, maybe "Thanks for the memory" would have become his theme
<JelloAgain> she was only on a few of Bing's early Philco shows and then disappeared.
Ari - He would have preferred it, I'm sure.
<kurt> Lina Romay was a rhumba singer with Xavier Cugat
cb - LOL
<JelloAgain> minute maid "There's NO Doubt About It!!"
boom chicka boom chicka boom
<Ari> But I'm glad it turned out the way it did.
<kurt> She was the original chick in boom chicka boom
So I've really got to ask...what did people think of the Lum and Abner show with Jack?
<kurt> And after she left Cugat, she was an actress in movies
<Michael> I liked it
It was so unusual hearing Jack on radio without a live audience reaction.
<Heidi> I liked the Cantor show better. that might just be my preference for live audiences, though.
<comedianbrad> In all the research that I have done, I've found that early Hollywood was VERY incestuous...so many shared with so few. It's really not surprising after a while.
<Ari> I liked that show. It was funny when one of them said that his violin playing was too good for him to be Jack Benny
<Michael> yep... I think it was Abner
> Michael - Yes, it was.
> Loved it when Jack would fall into dialect along with them.
> You can even hear Jack cracking up a little early on.
<Ari> Then when his playing took a few bad notes, they were convinced he was Benny
<Michael> I think all 3 of them cracked up at one time or another
<Alex Buck> It can be rough being a Benny fan but there are much fewer under the age of 50 that will recognize Cantor
> This isn't a violin...it's a dust storm with strings!
[Sun Aug 03 17:47:10 PDT 2003] Mikewats: It's too darn HOT!
> Hey Mikewats!
<Mikewats> Hi Laura, hello y'all
[Sun Aug 03 17:47:22 PDT 2003] Garry Hickman: email@example.com
<Michael> or a cat being stepped on by a horse
<Heidi> hi, mikewats
> Hello Garry!
<Michael> Hi Mikewats and Garry
<Michael> Bye Garry
[Sun Aug 03 17:47:40 PDT 2003] Douglas has no profile.
<Heidi> uh oh, we lost garry
> Wow...here comes everyone! Hello Douglas!
<Douglas> Hi from me
<Michael> Hi Doug
<Heidi> hi douglas
> Douglas - I've been meaning to E-mail you to see if Ernest is yet feeling well enough to talk.
<Ari> Hi Mikewats and Douglas
[Sun Aug 03 17:48:21 PDT 2003] Garry_Hickman: firstname.lastname@example.org
> WB Garry
<Alex Buck> Doug, whats the reaction to Bob's passing from over seas?
<Michael> And don't forget Laura... it wasn't a violin... it was a Fiddle :-)
<Ari> I still don't know the difference
> Michel - Oh right...it *was* Lum and Abner.
<comedianbrad> How much you get paid to play it!
<Douglas> Ernest? I have not spoken to him for a couple of weeks but he did say for youj to call him about now.
> Open topics are both the shows, Bob Hope, and Lina Romay.
> Douglas - OK, I will do that. Just wanted to check in first.
<Heidi> and the mt. rushmore of comedy
> Ah right, Heidi...thanks.
<Alex Buck> Did the Hattie character in the Cantor show do anything else?
<Michael> Fiddle players don't necessarily put the instrument under their chin like violinists do
<Mikewats> I have a question, does anybody know why so many Bob Hope films seem to be unavailable on TV right now
<Douglas> To answer: Bob Hope, I think, made less of an impact here and his passing is sadly noted.
<comedianbrad> TCM just ran about five of them on Friday
<JelloAgain> hey, jack was just on the cartoon network...in the WB cartoon with Elmer Fudd passing all of the "out of work actors"!
<Michael> was Hattie a regular on the Cantor show at that time?
<Heidi> it has to do with the rights. most of them are paramount films
<Mikewats> Yes, TCM did, but they were all from the 60s, nothing earlier
Douglas - His brand of comedy just didn't go over as well with the British audience as Jack and Danny Kay did, right?
<comedianbrad> Althoug in the past, they have run quite a few, and are in my collection...
<Douglas> In my view that is correct.
JA - Oh, is that Hollywood Daffy?
<JelloAgain> I'm sure many have seen this cartoon...he passes Jolson, Cantor, Bing & Benny before getting to Bugs Bunny
<Douglas> Despite that he came from London.
<JelloAgain> Not sure of the title....the TV is on next to the PC!
<Douglas> Danny Kaye was at his height here in 50s
<Michael> and the line "They'll never amount to anything" is a scream :-)
<Ari> Can we add Kay and Uncle Miltie to the comedy Mt Rushmore?
Ari - I'll second that.
<Michael> Kaye's already been added
<comedianbrad> Douglas...sorry to be off topic, but how well is Red Skelton remembered in England??
<Alex Buck> JA - I remember that one. It took some growing up for me to realize who they all were. Ah, to have known then what I know now.
<Michael> but Berle's being disputed
(loss due to screen refresh)
<Mikewats> Those Lum & Abner's were very "cold", no audience, music, or sound effects...it's interesting hearing Jack in that kind of setting
<Ari> Didn't Mel Blanc do Bugs?
<Garry_Hickman> Trouble maintaining link to chatroom. Will try next time. 'Bye.
<Heidi> yes, he did all the warner bros. characters practically
<Douglas> The wave reversed in the 70s.
<Alex Buck> I'm sure Mel got a kick out of the opportunity to do Jolson
<Michael> except Elemer Fudd....
Heidi - Except Elmer Fudd, who was Arthur Q. Bryan.
<Michael> that was Arthur Q Bryan
<Alex Buck> Yeah, Arthur Q!
<Garry_Hickman> ...And enjoy!
<JelloAgain> I'll look it up, LL. It's in a Bing filmography book
<kurt> Ah, back to Bing!
I'd like to know the answer to that question about whether Hattie McDaniel was a regular on Cantor.
<Alex Buck> Does anyone know a good Fibber McGee & Molly website?
<kurt> Butterfly McQueen was almost a regular with Benny
JA - OK great. If you can E-mail it to me, I'd appreciate it.
<Michael> I used to... but I forgot where it's at
<comedianbrad> Yes, do a google search...to find Fibber's site
<Heidi> I liked pauline better than butterfly
<Ari> Wasn't Hattie just substituting for someone in that audio?
Say, someone just asked me who played Pauline. Anyone know off the top of their head?
<Douglas> Laura, do give Ernest a call some time soon, won't you? He would love to hear from you.
<Alex Buck> McDaniel?
And how about that joke of Hattie's about Rochester..couldn't do that joke today!
<kurt> I don't think she was a regular cast member
<Alex Buck> Pauline always seemed like a watered down Gracie Allen to me
<Michael> I know... but oh boy was it funny :-)
<Alex Buck> What else was Hattie McDaniel known for?
<Heidi> Gone with the Wind
Do you remember the story about the censors and the discussion between Mary and Pauline about a locker room?
<Michael> ummm Gone with the Wind?
<Heidi> she was the first black person to win an oscar
<Mikewats> Lots of film roles...
<Alex Buck> My wife thought she sounded familiar. Was she Mamie?
<comedianbrad> Did she do Beulah??
<JelloAgain> She was Mamie in "Holiday Inn"
<Alex Buck> lol
cb - That was a man, I think!
<Michael> That was Marlon Hurt
<Heidi> Hattie was in a lot of great movies
<Ari> Did Hattie win an Oscar for GWTW?
<Heidi> yes, she did. best supporting actress
<Michael> laura it was.... and he was white
<Alex Buck> I understand that he was quite a shock to the audience when he did Beulah
<Michael> I bet it was
Michael - Right. I remember hearing stories about studio audiences erupting when he'd come out and say, "Someone bawl for Beulah?"
<Alex Buck> He would be out of the spot light and suddenly spin in it with that line
<Michael> I've heard those too
<Ari> Wasn't she not allowed to be buried in the Hollywood Cemetary because of race?
<Mikewats> Hatie was great in "The Male Animal"
<JelloAgain> LL- that cartoon was "What's Up Doc?" WB, 1950
Oh, she was also in Disney's "Song of the South".
<Heidi> Hattie was the best part of "Alice Adams" with katharine hepburn
<kurt> Yeah, but she has a monument there, now
<JelloAgain> Jack is seen playing the violin
<JelloAgain> (in the cartoon)
<Alex Buck> JA - was jack smoking a cigar too?
JA - Great! Thanks...I'll add that.
<Michael> I think so
<JelloAgain> oh boy, you got me there, Alex. I wasn't paying that close of attention!
I find if funny that Jack in cartoons is often seen with a cigar, obviously drawn by people who knew him off-mike!
<JelloAgain> I think there was one in his mouth as he payed
<Michael> Isn't there a cartoon where Jack is trying to get an Oscar out from a claw machine?
<Alex Buck> I remember seeing an earlier WB cartoon that had jack smoking a cigar and looking into a vending machine that sold Oscars and him saying, I've got to get me one of those
<kurt> Well, he'd mention a cigar in the 1930s
<Heidi> that sounds very familiar to me, mike
Michael - That was Hollywood Daffy.
Alex - Yup...Hollywood Daffy.
<Michael> Ok... thanks :-)
<Ari> I think that although Jack advertised for Lucky Strikes, he never smoked cigarettes, just cigars.
<kurt> As Jack Bunny in I WANT TO SINGA, he had a cigar
Kurt - He probably had to quit doing that when he went to Lucky Strike!
<Michael> and even then he only took one or 2 puffs
Kurt - Good point. I love that cartoon.
<JelloAgain> which cartoon had him as "Jack Bunny"?
<JelloAgain> that's the one...thanks Kurt
JA - I think maybe multiple ones had that reference, but at least "I Love to Singa"
<comedianbrad> Jack told a funny story about smoking cigars (one or two puffs) on the Tonight Show.
<Alex Buck> Michael - I rember reading that the English thought that he was so wasteful since he only took those couple of puffs on the cigar and then tossed it
<Michael> I've read that too
<Michael> and how shocked they were
<JelloAgain> That was the one with Owl Jolson (I Love to Sing-a)
Alex - Yes, I think they gifted him with some very expensive cigars during the war.
JA - Yup. I love to sing-a, about the sun-a and the moon-a and the spring-a, I love to sing-a...
<JelloAgain> la de da...ol microphones got me
<Michael> until pop looks in....
You know, I've had "Chickery Chick" stuck in my head today. Darn that bulletin board posting.
<Michael> then it's "Dreeeenk to me ooooooonly.... "etc
I love it...such a knowledgable group.
<JelloAgain> everyone's seen that cartoon!!
<Heidi> that was one of my favorites growing up
<Heidi> my intro to Jack Benny was through WB cartoons
<JelloAgain> There was also one from that time period called Bingo Crosbyana
Here's a cheer for Jackie Bunny and another for my mummy, I love-a to sing!
<Michael> why did they have "Jack Bunny" doing a Major Bowes thing?
<JelloAgain> Bing sued WB over that one!
<Michael> yeah he did
<kurt> Major Bowes was big, Benny was even bigger
<JelloAgain> yes, but I don't think he won
<Michael> makes sense...
[Sun Aug 03 18:04:47 PDT 2003] KM99: That's What I Like About The South
Michael - I've wondered that too. I think it's because of the easy morph of the name.
<JelloAgain> he didn't like the way he was portrayed in it
Hi KM99!! Welcome in!
<KM99> Howdy Folks
<Michael> Hi KM99
<Heidi> Hi, KM99
<JelloAgain> hi KM99
<Alex Buck> My wife was wondering if Cantor made it to TV. I thought that he had died before then
KM99 - We're discussing lots of things, like the shows, Bob Hope, Lina Romay, and who should be on the Mount Rushmore of comedy.
<Michael> he made it to TV
Alex - He died in 1964, I think.
<Michael> he was on the Colgate Comdey hour
<kurt> Cantor did the Colgate Comedy Hour
He was one of the first cases of censorship on TV! For the same thing that caught Elvis!
<Ari> Hi KM99
<Alex Buck> ewwh
<kurt> But his heart attacks slowed him down
<JelloAgain> really, LL? What did he do?
<KM99> For one thing, if they're going to have a Mount Rushmore of Comedy, they ought to make it a bit bigger this time.
<JelloAgain> did he swivel his hips like Elvis?
<Michael> I suggested we use a whole mountain range
<Heidi> hee hee
<Douglas> What are their plans?
JA - Well, two things.
<kurt> Lina Romay is married to Bob O'Brien, a former writer for Lucille Ball
<Alex Buck> I doubt that he got into trouble for urling his lip
He was doing a bit of the song "We're Having a Baby", and they clipped the line, "Just think it's my first one, the next one's on me"
<comedianbrad> What we need here is a Mt. Olympus of Comedy...big enough to hold the entire pantheon of "comedy gods"
And he did a little hula dance during the instrumental, so they unfocused the cameras so you couldn't see his swiveling hips!
<kurt> Cantor did this?
<JelloAgain> no kidding! That's funny...Cantor being as controversial as Elvis!!
Kurt - That's how I heered it.
<Douglas> What plans exist for a Mt Rushmore of comedy and what form will this take?
<Ari> Laura,Why was the first one you mentioned censored?
Douglas - It's more of a concept thing.
<kurt> Cantor must have thought he was back with Ziegfeld
<Michael> All this talk about Cantor reminds me of the TV show where Fred Allen tries to steal Jack's Job
Ari - The woman sings "Just think it's my first one" and CAntor sings "The next one's on me"...they thought it was too suggestive for some reason.
Michael - I just saw that recently. I yelled when Cantor came out!
<JelloAgain> that was back in the days when you couldn't say pregnant on TV!
Who played Mr. Fink on Cantor's show? It's a familiar voice.
<Alex Buck> It sounded like Frank Nelson to me
<Michael> I like the way Fred, Jack and Eddie started Ad libbing at the end of the that show :-)
<Ari> We came a long way since Gable said the 4 letter D word on GWTW.
It also sounds like Hattie McDaniel was standing away from the mike. Her delivery was so "big" that it probably would have bloomed on the mike.
<JelloAgain> So true Ari!
<Heidi> they got fined $5000 for that
Michael - Yes, that's great isn't it?
Very unusual for Jack's show.
<JelloAgain> for saying the d word Heidi?
<Michael> But with those 3... it worked
I remember seeing it on TV in the 70s and the bleeped "damn".
<Alex Buck> chump change considering what that movie must have taken in
<kurt> A couple of new words have crept onto late-night TV
<JelloAgain> wow! You know there's the famous bit on Jack's show where Bing says "who the hell picked this key Dennis Day" and it caused a big uproar, as it went over the air live
<Heidi> I think the censors wanted them to change the line to "frankly my dear, I don't care."
<Ari> Wasn't GWTW yhe biggest money maker movie for a while?
<kurt> Oh, don't get ME started on GWTW
Heidi - Yes, I think I remember reading that. Just doesn't have the same impact.
<Heidi> not at all
<kurt> GWTW still is the biggest moneymaker, adjusted for inflation
Kurt - LOL!!!!!!
<Michael> How were they able to get around it?
<kurt> Because more people went to the movies then
<Heidi> especially when everyone had read the book at the time and knew what the line was supposed to be.
<Heidi> they just shot it anyway and forked over the $5000 fine.
<kurt> EVERYONE went to the movies at least once a week then
<Ari> kurt, I didn't know that. It's amazing considering the population today is probably double then
<Alex Buck> JA - surely Bing didn't say hell for the rebroadcast, did he?
And it was only...what...50 cents to see a movie?
<Michael> something like that
<Heidi> less than that in 1939, I think
<kurt> Before teevee, everyone went either downtown or to the neighborhood movie house
<JelloAgain> Yes, I think he did, LL. Bing was used to pre-recording his shows, and slipped when he guested with Benny
<Alex Buck> 50 cents could have bought what, 3 gallons of gas?
<kurt> GWTW in first run charged up to $2 for reserved seats
I think someone recently commented to me that part of the reason people went to the movies was because some of the theatres were air-conditioned (or air-cooled, as they said then).
<Michael> and of course... each studio had its own theater
<JelloAgain> It was later issued on a V-disc
<kurt> 20 degrees cooler inside!
Alex - I think they were transcribing by that time.
<KM99> Alex - listen to Jack Benny 1947-03-09 and you can hear Bing's bing on tanscription
<Ari> But wasn't it TV that really knocked down movie attendance?
<Michael> Actually Laura... Air cooled meant that they had fans blowing over big blocks of ice.... a bit different from AC as we know it
<Alex Buck> If it was transcribed, why didn't they cut it out?
<JelloAgain> Benny was transcribing in early 1947 already??
<kurt> benny was still live in 1947
Michael - Interesting...I never knew that.
<kurt> he didn't tape until the cbs programs, I thought
<JelloAgain> He was still on NBC- the network that forbade Bing to pre-record!
Kurt - I'm not positive of that. I need to do more research on it.
<JelloAgain> That's why Bing left NBC and moved to ABC and Philco Radio Time
<kurt> And Lina Romay!
<JelloAgain> lol, and Lina Romay, yes Kurt!
<Michael> Was it NBC Red or Blue that became ABC?
<Alex Buck> good question
<kurt> NBC Blue became ABC
3/16/47 is Bing's "Hell" actually.
<JelloAgain> Do you know who replaced Lina Romay on Bing's Philco show?
<Ari> I think Benny switched to CBS in 1949 or 1950 for TV. CBS president Paley brought Benny over along with Red & George & Grace and a few others. He saw TV's potential
It was NBC Blue.
<KM99> LL - You're right. My ooops
Ari - Well, that was part of it. There's a lot of reasons it happened.
<JelloAgain> Peggy Lee became the featured vocalist
<kurt> Wonder if Bing made a play for her, too?
KM - No problem. Just happened to be looking it up.
<Alex Buck> That's right, all of the stars had tracked in Johnson's Wax on their heads
Larry Adler told me a great story about Peggy Lee.
<JelloAgain> lol, no Kurt, no mention of that in her bio
<Michael> I thought Peggy Lee worked on Jimmy Durante's Rexall show?
<Heidi> "what are they, acrobats?"
<JelloAgain> but he did take her out to a few nightclubs
<JelloAgain> she was on Bing's show a bit prior to the Durante show
Adler was working a theatre, and one of the stagehands asked what he should call him.
<JelloAgain> what's the story, LL?
<comedianbrad> Signing off....Bye, all!
He said, "Just call me Larry. Why?"
<kurt> bye, brad
<KM99> Seeya brad
<JelloAgain> bye cb
The stagehand said, "Well, Peggy Lee was here last week and we all had to call her Miss Lee."
Larry said, "Well, what's good enough for her is good enough for me."
So the stagehand called Larry "Miss Lee" for his entire run there.
<JelloAgain> lol, funny!
I adopted it as my pet name for Larry...he called me Lorelei.
<Ari> I guess the stagehand had the last laugh
<Michael> Can anyone confirm/deny Jack being on Laugh in?
I was amused by Cantor's "Why, it's Jack Benny!" It seems that was done on a number of shows at that time.
Michael - I can confirm it...I have it on tape.
<kurt> Jack was on Laugh In a couple of times
<KM99> LL - I thought I had heard that bit before but I don't know where. Examples, LL?
<_bill> they kept telling him to speed it up
Watch the TV show with the jam session, and everyone that comes to the door Jack announces with, "Why, it's Fred MacMurray!" "Why, it's Kirk Douglas!"
<Michael> I can't listen to Bye Bye Blues now without cracking up... thanks to Kirk Douglas :-)
_bill - Yeah...Jack has a very cute line about, "Everyone's talking about so much sex on television. I sit at home and turn from one channel to another channel to another, and just can't seem to find any."
[Sun Aug 03 18:22:53 PDT 2003] Ari has no profile.
<Ari> Are we still on?
<Michael> looks like it
<kurt> Oh, rats, I must depart!
Ari - Yeah, just waiting for you to say something. :)
<Heidi> my favorite line on the Cantor show was "well, enough about me. how's Ida? has she seen my picture?"
Kurt - Thanks for stopping!
<KM99> Seeya Kurt
<kurt> Miss Romay might be calling!
<Heidi> bye kurt
boom chicka boom
<Alex Buck> Well gang, the time has come for me to take out. Thanks for the chat. Bob - we'll miss you. Someone said on the bulletin board that they hoped that someone was recording the reunion in heavan. I'll have to get a copy of that myself. Catch you all next month.
Take care, Alex!
<KM99> Seeya Alex
<Heidi> bye Alex
<JelloAgain> bye Alex
<Ari> Are we still chatting? Anyone?
<Michael> bye Alex
Ari - Yes...can you hear us?
I like Cantor's slip of "I was just telling Mary" when he meant "I was just telling Harry"
For folks who listened to the Jack Benny program with Bob Hope, do you think that Mary was in the studio or at home for that one?
<Heidi> that was funny
<Michael> yes it was
BRB folks...keep talking...
<Heidi> then Benny slips and calls Dinah Shore "Ida" later
Heidi - Oh, I didn't hear that...when was it?
<_bill> Jack bennys laugh in appearnce is scheduled on TRIO 9/30
<Heidi> when he's talking to her about joining his show
Funny how the Cantor-Dinah Shore was very similar to the Hope-Doris Day part.
<Michael> I need to head off... Take Care Everyone and see you next month
<Heidi> bye Michael
_bill - I'm glad to hear that Laugh-In is still on!
<KM99> Seeya Michael
Good night, Michael!
So let's see...who did we have on Mt. Rushmore...
<Douglas> Same from me. Good night all. Have a good month ahead.
Jack, Bob, George and Gracie, Danny Kaye, the Marx Brothers...who else?
Take care, Douglas!
<KM99> Seeya Douglas
<Heidi> bye Douglas
<Heidi> Buster Keaton
<Heidi> Lucille Ball
<KM99> Fred Allen
I wonder how many gifted comedians there were before the advent of film.
People that may have been as talented as the folks we've mentioned, but were just never preserved.
So what else is on your minds this evening?
[Sun Aug 03 18:31:27 PDT 2003] Ari has no profile.
<JelloAgain> good question... vaudeville must've produced a ton of them. Take Smith & Dale.
<KM99> LL - Tell us about the Dinner in August
JA - Or Weber and Fields
<JelloAgain> or Goldie, Fields, & Glide!! LOL
KM - Oh, it's nothing terribly formal. Just getting folks together to talk and eat and cameraderize.
JA - Yeah!
[Sun Aug 03 18:32:29 PDT 2003] kurt has no profile.
WB kurt! No call from Lina?
<JelloAgain> two bushels & a peck
<kurt> OK, guess while I'm back
<kurt> guess why I'm back, I mean
There's a great radio show where Jack and Fred talk about being a vaudeville team.
<Heidi> because you missed us!
Jack redid that on TV with Bob Hope.
<kurt> WAMU is running the first Philco Radio Time, with Hope as Bing's guest
Because there's just nothing better to do in the world that kibbitz with Benny fans.
<JelloAgain> you have Lina with you, right Kurt?
<kurt> Featured vocalist: LINA ROMAY!
<KM99> LL - That's the one where Jack & Bob audition for a job, right?
[Sun Aug 03 18:33:57 PDT 2003] Robert Mechner: Love Bob Hope, Jack Benny, Bing, Chaplin and more.
I guess he DOES have Lina with him!
Hello Robert! Welcome in.
<JelloAgain> Well how about that! Her ears must be ringing with all of this talk about her!
<Robert Mechner> Thanks
Robert - We've been talking a lot about Bob (and Bing, and even Chaplin) this evening, so feel free to spread the topic around.
<kurt> She's active in Pacific Pioneer Broadcasters, Laura
<JelloAgain> Oh, OK
<Robert Mechner> I really will miss Bob Hope. He wam part of the fabric of America.
<JelloAgain> Bob Hope IS America. No two ways about it.
<Heidi> boy, you get up for one second in this house and the cat steals your chair.
<Ari> Hope was one of Benny's closest friends
Kurt - Then she probably knows Eddie.
<JelloAgain> I see Laura used the photo I sent her of Jack & Bob back to back from the early '70s in her tribute. It's one of my favorites
Kurt - Woo hoo...how's your Bing Crosby impersonation?
<JelloAgain> oh no, here it comes
JA - Is it the one of them back to back?
<JelloAgain> yes LL
<kurt> Apparently she thought I was younger than I am
JA - OK. I don't keep much track of the origin of my photos (sometimes intentionally due to copyrights).
<JelloAgain> Now Kurt, you're not going to admit to being over 39 are you?
<kurt> Not at all!
On a completely different topic, Jack benny is gracing the skies and the bus stops of Louisville, KY right now.
<JelloAgain> No, not a problem, LL. I was just happy to see it there!
JA - I was happy to have it. It's a GREAT shot of them!
<kurt> Is he really? Howzat?
<Heidi> how's that Laura?
<KM99> LL - Courtesy of William?
KM - Indeed!
Well, Eddie Carroll is going to be doing his show there. So they're doing a big advertising blitz for it.
I have photos of the advertisements...I need to scan them and put them on the Web. It's great!
<Robert Mechner> I remember the Jack Benny TV specials, but his radio and TV series were before my time.I do listen to his radio shows on tape. They are really great. And there are so many layers of intersting characters on Bennys show.
<kurt> The TV specials recycled a lot of old material
Robert - Yes, so many people have said that they feel like the radio gang was like family or close friends.
[Sun Aug 03 18:41:37 PDT 2003] bpok has no profile.
<Heidi> I just ordered one of the mp3 CD sets off of eBay. I'm hoping it arrives before I take a road trip next week.
<Heidi> (of the radio shows, that is)
<kurt> Radio was so much more intimate than TV
<Ari> Robert, who is your favorite character on Benny's shows?
<bpok> so did anyone else notice how jack started talking like lum in lum n abner episode?
<JelloAgain> I was just talking to a friend of mine who was in the audience for the taping of the First Farewell special in 1973. He said Jack was unhappy the way the radio sketch with Flip Wilson was going and really blew his top. Bob Hope came out to calm him down!
[Sun Aug 03 18:42:16 PDT 2003] richard gregg: email@example.com
<KM99> LL - Getting back to this idea of a Mt Rushmore for comedy, we'd need a whole range just to recognize the fine writers that made it all possible
<bpok> hi laura, its bill
bpok - Yes! Made me laugh.
bpok - Oh hi, Bill! You should tell about the billboards and all...I was just mentioning it.
KM - That's an excellent point. Jack's could make a Rushmore on their own.
<richard gregg> hello.
<bpok> Well, eddie carroll is coming to the derby city aug 21 for easter seals
<kurt> Flip Wilson did a radio sketch?
Open the door, Richard
Or, well, close it.
<bpok> there are billboards and playbills all over town.. says its his last louisville appearance before broadway
<kurt> Was Flip sort of a Rochester subsitute?
<JelloAgain> yes, there was a sketch on that special that was supposed to be how a radio show was done, with the sound effects an everything. I think it was sort've a "Buck Benny Rides Again" theme
<Ari> robert, they were great
Kurt - He was on one of the specials.
<bpok> course it may be his first louisville appearance before broadway too
Kurt - Jack even called him Rochester in the middle of a skit on the First Farewell Special.
<kurt> They used Redd Foxx in 1974
JA - Are you thinking of the Ironsides takeoff?
<kurt> They HAD to have known they were substitute Rochesters
<JelloAgain> that's it-- Ironsides! I knew it had a western theme
<kurt> I'm still waiting for Lina to appear on the Crosby show. Bob's on now
<JelloAgain> She'll be on after the first commercial, Kurt.
I was enjoying the slip with Rochester on the show that's on the Bob Hope page....one of the few times that it sounds like Roch is actually hamming a bit!
<JelloAgain> Incidently, I own one of those Philco 1201 radio/phono combos that Bing plugged on that show.
bpok - Eddie sent me scans of the ads. Would love to see one of them against the skyline!
<kurt> Tubes still work?
<Heidi> does it still work, JA?
<JelloAgain> yep...just slide the record in (78rpm) close the door, and it plays automatically!
JA - Oh very cool. I own a Victor Victrola that had a slot where you could install a radio (it's about 1924), but it doesn't have one there now.
<JelloAgain> way ahead of it's time!
<bpok> wow, jello again sounds just like ken carpenter
<JelloAgain> lol Philco---famous for quality the world over!
<bpok> ill try to get you a picture of that and the clifton theater laura
I have the first Philco model...1927!
<JelloAgain> wow! does it work?
bpok - That would be great. You're going to have a wonderful time.
JA - That one needs some tubes. I need to do some work with a few of my radios, but it's one of those lower-priority projects.
<bpok> i almost always have a wonderful time.. and what a price... regular tickets only 20 bucks
(loss due to screen refresh)
bpok - Oh my...I know a little, but others probably know more.
<JelloAgain> hmm, could that be Lina's intro??
It only came in cream and brown. I have a Scottie radio that is in brown bakelite
<bpok> i just know certain colors didnt hold up so well over time
<JelloAgain> you know how you can tell the difference between bakellite and plastic?
<Robert Mechner> I have be forunate to have become interested in radio shows 30 years ago. I listened to reruns in New York. I Washington DC I listen to radio shows on 88.5 FM WAMU. Right now they have Bob and Bing on.
<kurt> And Lina!
RM - Is that When Radio Was?
JA - How?
<kurt> No, it's called The Big Broadcast
<kurt> Lovely Lina Romay, singing Love on a Greyhound Bus
<KM99> Isn't Bakelite very hard & brittle
Is it just a local show?
<bpok> i know im late laura, but how did jack come to be a guest with lum et al?
<kurt> wamu.org, click on listen now
<Robert Mechner> No WAMU is a local public radio station originating at American University. Its been doing this since the 1960's.
[Sun Aug 03 18:53:20 PDT 2003] Mikewats: 39, M, Oklahoma
bpok - I asked that of the Prez of the Lum and Abner Society, and he theorized it was because of Andy Devine's friendship with Tuffy Goff (Abner).
<JelloAgain> if you polish bakellite with semi-chrome polish, it will come off on the rag. Plastic won't.
<kurt> I'm swooning!
Kurt - And she LIKES ya!
Robert - Ah, that's great that they're still sustaining it. Do they play Jack's shows regularly?
<Robert Mechner> I have heard bakellite has an ammond sent if you scratch and sniff it.
<kurt> Not enough Jack on WAMU
You know, here's a question that I've wondered about for a while. And please be candid in your answers.
<JelloAgain> that's true...bakellite has a very strong odor if put under heat, like a fawcett
<Ari> According to my dictionary, Bakelite is a synthetic resin made from formaldehyde & phenol, used for the same purpose as hard rubber, celluloid, etc. This nis the first I heard of it
<Mikewats> Best place I've found lately for hearing Jack in excellent sound is "From Jack Benny to Gunsmoke" on Live365
<bpok> so does cyanide
<Robert Mechner> The host, Ed Walker once had a long interview with Jack Benny when he worked for WRC radio.
<kurt> Nertz. They didn't give Lina any dialogue
People go out and pay lots of money for Jack Benny shows on tape and CD. Why not get them from the IJBFC library?
<JelloAgain> er, Ok, bpok. I'll take your word on that!
<Robert Mechner> Where is LIVE 365?
Watch out for Live365...they put a lot of cookies on your system to track your activities.
<kurt> There's a Jack Benny station on Live365, but you have to pay for access
<KM99> LL - In answer to your question, I have most of the shows already.
<Mikewats> There are lots of OTR stations on Live365, but the audio quality on many is hit and miss
<bpok> live365.. i think the host of that site used to be a guest here on the forum from time to time
<Ari> Laura, what do you mean? Who tracks our activities?
<Robert Mechner> Pay? I'm a Jack Benny fan. I want free entertainment. Is stick with teh Benny club.
KM - True. Someone (a member) was complaining on the Forum that their vendor didn't have a certain show, but we had it in the library.
Ari - Live365 puts cookies on your system so that they can track your Web movements. I don't know much about it, but know they're notorious for it.
Robert - Good answer. *back slap*
<Mikewats> I'm on their no-ad membership for $5 a month, considering what they give you it
<Mikewats> it's well worth it
bpok - Really?
<Ari> Robert, I think I get it. A jack Benny follower would want entertainment for free
<KM99> There's a guy on Live365 who has been playing my BIG ONE collection for the last two years. It's my WWII set
Don't get me wrong...I'm not trying to compete with people selling shows commercially (although most of them are doing it illegally).
Just more curious why more people don't use the library. Although we do have a core of loyal, regular borrowers.
<Heidi> is it illegal? I thought they were all public domain?
<_bill> bob hope special on msnbc now will be on many more times
Heidi - Nope. None of them are public domain. They're owned by the Benny estate.
<Mikewats> Didn't Joan say she thought they were public domain?
<Heidi> I didn't realize that.
The only ones that are selling them legally are Radio Spirits.
<kurt> Well, Lina has left the airwaves. I have to go write some letters
Mikewats - She did, but she's wrong. I've done the legal research.
<kurt> I'll tell her you all say hi
OK, take care Kurt!
<Heidi> bye Kurt!
<Mikewats> Huh, well , that's interesting
<Mikewats> Bye Kurt
<Ari> bill, when is the Bob Hope special on msnbc?
<KM99> Through OTRCDME, we made 60,000 OTR shows available to the mp3 public across the world.
<KM99> Seeya Kurt
There are a couple of sites that I think took a copy of the IJBFC library and are now selling it, because they use the same organization and labelling that I do.
<Robert Mechner> I was luck enough to have meet Bob Hope in 1978 when he was 75. Hope did not like how people kept telling him he was 75. He just wanted to be Bob Hope. Not someone 75..
<Mikewats> Sounds great, KM
Robert - I can understand that.
<Mikewats> I saw Hope perform in 1989, he was still in good shape hen
Robert - Did you get a chance to talk with him?
I don't know if the cameras/mikes captured this, but at the Television Academy Hall of Fame, George Burns came to the foot of the steps and said to Hope,
<JelloAgain> Bob started going downhill soon after he returned from Saudi Arabia in 1991. That last USO tour took a lot out of him.
"Can you give an old friend a hand?" Hope then sort of pulled George up the steps.
<Robert Mechner> Briefly. He signed a book for me. I wished him good luck doing the show. I knw he likes it when people wish him luck when he begins a show.
Robert - Interesting. There's an old theatre tradition that you never wish someone luck, you say "break a leg". Interesting that a veteran like Hope wouldn't subscribe to that.
<Ari> Jello, is that when he starting aging rapidly?
<JelloAgain> yes, I think so Ari
Maybe someone broke the portrait? :)
<JelloAgain> After he turned 90, in 1993, he really went downhill fast
<Mikewats> What year was his last NBC special, the one that Delores really more or less hosted?
JA - I almost wonder if it was partially psychological, as turning 80 was for Jack.
<JelloAgain> Could be LL.
Mikewats - Wasn't that something like "Bob Hope Laughs with the Presidents"?
Sort of the TV equivalent to George Burns' "100 Years, 100 Stories".
<JelloAgain> His last NBC special was in 1996. I should know, as on the day it aired, I receieved a beautiful 8 x 10 of Bob & Dolores, each of them signed it to me
<Robert Mechner> I saw hope perform three times at shows. And once I saw him announce a show he would be doing durring half time at a University of Virginia football game.
JA - Wow...lucky you!
<Mikewats> I'm not sure, Laura, I remember a lot of it was a number of Hope's former guests, appearing solo to extend best wishes, and Delores talking with Bob sitting beside her
<JelloAgain> It was called Laughing With The Presidents
<Mikewats> Kind of sad, really
<bpok> i met bob on the sidewalk at the executive in in owensboro kentucky
<bpok> of all places
<KM99> Bill - Wow
<bpok> he was on his way to the owensboro countryclub to golf
<JelloAgain> I'm good friends with the man who was Bob & Dolores' music director after Les Brown stepped aside. He arranged the photo for me
[Sun Aug 03 19:07:08 PDT 2003] fred nester: comedy collector
Wow! Who in the room *hasn't* seen Bob Hope live?
<bpok> all we talked about was golf..
<JelloAgain> me too, unfortunately.
<KM99> LL - Bob never had a chance to meet me either
<Robert Mechner> I once had a girlfriend who was at an over seas American Base. By chance Bob Hope sat next to her at the bar. He asked her, do you know who I am? She said no. He said, "you've got a lot to learn".
Robert - LOL!
<JelloAgain> I talked to his wife Dolores, though. And his daughter Linda. And his publicist Ward Grant. But never Bob.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was interested in teaching her.
<bpok> i saw toby relieve himself once
<JelloAgain> on you, bpok?
<bpok> (toby was some sort of raggedy ann type dog that bob and dolores had in the early 80s
Fred - The conversation's not normally quite like this...
<Robert Mechner> Whats LOL mean? Maybe I shouldn't ask.
bpok - Oh....OH...OHHHHH!!!!
<bpok> no but i remember bob making a bee line for one of the homes lining the golf course
<Heidi> Laughing Out Loud
<bpok> bet that was some knock on the door
That reminds me of when Jack saw a house he thought was his boyhood home and went up and knocked on it.
Fred - What's the focus of your interest in Jack? Radio? TV?
<JelloAgain> I like the story of how Jack got caught in Jimmy Stewart's sprinkler system and thought it was an elaborate gag set up by Jimmy
JA - Maybe I should admit this, but refresh my memory on that.
<Robert Mechner> I like Jack mostly for his radio shows. But I like Jack Benny for himself. He was so original. And he was kind.
(Makes me think of Jack dressing up as a gypsy and getting locked out of the house.)
<JelloAgain> I think it was in the Josefberg book
<Ari> Are Benny's shows being shown on cable TV?
Robert - Indeed. He's one of the few people in the Hollywood firmament who no one ever has a bad word about.
<fred nester> Laura, the answer regarding my interest is RADIO!
Ari - Unfortunately, not in the US. But sometimes in Canada.
Fred - Very understandable. That was definitely Jack at his best.
<_bill> there is a menphis station sometimes runs the old Benny tv shows
<Mikewats> "Radio, your constant companion...radio, your family friend..."
Fred - Do you have a preference between the various Benny radio eras?
<JelloAgain> Jack was soaked, and laughing convulsively when Jimmy's wife Gloria came to the door and apologized. Jack's walking over the lawn triggered the sprinkler system.
JA - What a strange trigger for a sprinkler system.
<JelloAgain> It wasn't a joke, as he thought.
<Ari> Perhaps, they have his shows at the Museum of TV & Radio in Beverly Hills
JA - By the way, let me know if you want me to use a different abbreviation for your name.
<JelloAgain> I'll have to go back and look it up again in Milt's book.
<Fred> The later the better! The studio sound really got good and the sound efffects libraries on disc were really clean!
<JelloAgain> makes me sound like a real jack-ass!
JA - That's fine, I can find it. I'm so awash in Jack Benny information that now and again a story will fall out of my ear.
<Robert Mechner> During the war my aunt checked into a hotel. I think it was in the mid west. Jack Benny and his radio troops were checking out. My Aunt got the room Jack checked out of. She was surprised what a crumby room he had stayed in.
Fred - You don't have to put your name in front of your messages...system does that for you.
Fred - Understood. I was dubbing some early 30s shows for someone recently, and a few of them are unlistenable in spots.
Robert - Have you heard the stories about how Jack would do that? Give the "good" room to someone else?
<Robert Mechner> No, I had not heard.
JA - OK, I'm switching to Je.
<fred nester> When you consider the age of his older recordings (RADIO), it's amazing we can hear anything?
Robert - That's pretty classic Jack. Irving told a story about checking into a Canadian hotel and the manager proudly showing Jack the suite where the Queen had stayed
gold-plated faucets and everything.
Then Jack asked to see where Irving and Marion would be staying.
<JelloAgain> lol, that would be better LL!
<bpok> can you tell a difference in the aluminum vs the acetate transcription quality?
[Sun Aug 03 19:16:39 PDT 2003] Heidi has no profile.
<bpok> did the aluminum ones hold up over time?
When he saw their fairly regular room, Jack said, "Irving, there's two of you, so why don't you take the suite?"
The manager was very flustered and wanted Jack in the good suite, but Jack insisted.
<Ari> Typical Jack, always thinking of others
Irving also said that within 15 minutes, Jack had made his room look like he'd been there for weeks.
<fred nester> There was a story going around that all the big stars of the 30's, Benny, Burns, Jolson etc., all incredible social
bpok - I'm not sure which were recorded on what, so I can't say.
<Robert Mechner> Jack always looked good. He never seemed to age.
<KM99> LL - The Canadian Hotel you mentioned would have been "The Royal York."
Fred - Yes, Hollywood was a very different place then. On Roxbury, you had all these stars right there in one little spot.
<fred nester> I meant to say they all had incredible SOCIAL lives because the studios loved them for the money SHOW STOPPERS
KM - Hey, I stayed there!
KM - Not in that suite, though.
<fred nester> brought to Hollywood.
<bpok> i think eddie carroll picked jack to emulate cause he never aged
<JelloAgain> I didn't realize how late it's getting! I'm afraid I'm gonna have to run. Been great chatting with you all! Hope to be back next month!
<Heidi> bye Jello
bpok - Eddie was telling me that Charles Nelson Reilly had commented to him that when you take on a person to imitate, you take on their aura as well.
<KM99> Seeya JA
Take care, Je!
<bpok> great to see you jello, and philco pitcher
<Mikewats> Night, Jello
<JelloAgain> bye everyone!
<Robert Mechner> See you Jello.
Fred - I was recently reading that Jolson wasn't as "social" as one might have thought. Jack recalled him often being alone at Hillcrest.
Joan has some amazing stories about the parties her parents threw. Practically a galaxy of stars under one roof.
<bpok> if you talk to mr carroll and his wife, Laura, tell them that the humidity and heat are especially wilting in late august here in the ohio valley
I will let them know.
<Ari> I know. I read Joan's bio of her father
I'm realy glad to see that they've got a very busy schedule coming up.
So which Benny biography is the best?
<KM99> When I first started with "Show Business" I learned a great lesson. Be nice to all the folks you meet on the way up the ladder since they're the same folks you'll see on your way down.
<Heidi> the only one I've read is Sunday Nights at 7
KM - Amen to that! A lesson that seems to be lacking in much of the industry today.
<Ari> I read 2, Joan's and the one by Mary & Hilliard & I enjoyed both equally
I highly recommend the Milt Josefsberg book as a good read. Not always accurate, but very fun.
<KM99> LL - I've only read Sunday Nights At Seven
<Mikewats> I've only read Sunday Nights at Seven, too
<Robert Mechner> It's a shame but I don't believe there are any new entertainers
<Ari> He was one of his writers
Here's a tip...look for used books at www.addall.com/used
<Robert Mechner> as good as Hope or Benny.
Ari - Right. Mostly on radio.
Robert - Agreed. When Biography ran a Hope tribute, they did this phone poll about "Who's the next Bob Hope?"
They listed the options and I said, "None of the above".
<Ari> Robert, I agree. That was the Golden Age of Comedy
I do have to say that Robin Williams is an incredibly talented performer, though. Just different than Hope, Benny, Burns, etc.
<Robert Mechner> I remember. The choices they gave was not a good selection.
Yeah...Chris Rock is the next Bob Hope? I think not!
<bpok> wonder why relatively little of bobs radio work survived and so much of jacks did (im glad tho)
<KM99> LL - I really like Robin William's bit on the game of golf.
<Heidi> I like Chris Rock but he's hardly comparable to Bob Hope
<KM99> Bill - There's lots of Hope stuff. It's just that most of it is un-released.
KM - I don't think I know that bit.
<Ari> Wasn't Bob Hope probably the most famous comedian in history?
KM - Is the family holding it?
<KM99> LL - Check out his Live on Broadway video
<KM99> LL - Yes
Ari - That's a tough call, because there's no way to measure it.
<Robert Mechner> I think he met more people and traveled to more places than any other comedian in history.
I wonder how long it's going to be before we start seeing Hope material on TV like the Skelton and Dean Martin tapes.
Robert - True in the large picture, but Jack did almost as much travelling as Hope during WWII.
<Mikewats> I wish there some intact Hope TV shows available, entire shows...
<Mikewats> I don't care for any of these clip packages
<bpok> that has been sort of lost hasnt it laura.. lots of these guys did overseas tours
<Robert Mechner> Hope Enterprisies have been selling Hopes old TV shows on tape. I purchased the package a few months ago. The picture quality is not good.
<bpok> I think jack had a tough tour through africa
bpok - Yes, Jack just didn't publicize it like Hope did.
RM - That's unfortunate. I'd think they'd be more careful about that.
bpok - Yes, he did. I think this week's caption contest photo was taken during that tour.
bpok - I think the Pacific Islands tour wasn't easy either.
<bpok> i seem to remember reading about some of those stops
[Sun Aug 03 19:31:03 PDT 2003] firstname.lastname@example.org: ripley
<Heidi> I have to be going. good night, all -- see you next month
OK, take care Heidi!
<bpok> thanks heidi
<KM99> Seeya Heidi
<Robert Mechner> I have to get up at 4 AM. Sorry I have to go to sleep. This was the first time I participated in you chat room. I really enjoyed it. Good night.
Thanks Robert, hope to see you next time!
<Mikewats> Night, Robert
Joe - We're winding down a bit, but feel free to offer any new topics...Jack Benny, Bob Hope, etc.
<bpok> did anyone talk about the eddie cantor show format laura.. was it a canned format?
Joe - There you are...we can see you.
<KM99> Seeya Robert
bpok - How do you mean a "canned format"?
<bpok> well, jacks show always followed a pattern with the songs, skits etc
<bpok> I thought the cantor show would have had more music
<bpok> but I have never heard one before this one
<bpok> maybe i just dont know cantor very well
I haven't listened to a lot of Cantor shows, but I think this was pretty standard. It was primarily comedy, like Jack's.
<KM99> I think I'm a goin' to pack it in as well, folks. It's just too hot to sit inside anymore.
OK, take care KM!
<bpok> Nite KM..
Joe's here to cover Canada for you.
<KM99> See Y'all later
So what else is on the docket for this evening?
<bpok> I guess, I just dont know as much about eddie cantor as i should
<Mikewats> It's too darn hot
<bpok> ITS PERFECT....lol
Funny that people are saying it's hot...I just closed the windows because it's too cool here.
<Ari> Where r u, Mikewats
bpok - Might want to look up the Eddie Cantor Society if you're interested.
<bpok> I think i need to do that
bpok - I think of Cantor as a comedian who also sang...not unlike Bob Hope.
<bpok> I meant to buy that book in LA but forgot
bpok - I can put you in touch with Michelle, if you'd like (she's the Prez).
<Ari> In what city r u, Laura
Ari - I'm in the San Francisco area.
<bpok> ill just look up their website and maybe ill make a purchase
<Ari> It is cooler there
You with us, Joe, or just observing?
<Mikewats> I'm in central Oklahoma, it's been right around 100 here for almost a month
bpok - Eddiecantor.com is run by Brian Gari. I haven't looked for what's available there, but I'm sure there's something.
<email@example.com> Did you mention that Eddie Cantor did a few movies in the '30s
<Ari> That's hott!!
<bpok> no 100 here, it has been too cool.. good tee times when its 100
<_bill> the cantor movies are good
<firstname.lastname@example.org> and there was a bad biography of him with Keefe Brasselle in the '50s
Joe - We hadn't mentioned that, but it's definitely true. He even worked with Lucille Ball when she was in the chorus.
<Mikewats> Was Cantor in any big films?
<bpok> i saw that biography, i think it has a chapter bout his first heart attack
Joe - Oh, Keefe Brasselle! Oh boy...there's a story...
<email@example.com> I'd say he was more like George Jessel than Bob Hope - nothing like Hope
Joe - Did Keefe write the biography?
Joe - Yes, I was meaning that Hope was a comedian but also sang. Not meaning to compare their style.
<firstname.lastname@example.org> I don't think so - he starred as Eddie, and was very poor - he didn't have the impact of Larry
<email@example.com> Parks in The Jolson Story, which I think is was supposed to copy.
Joe - Oh, oh...OK. Strange casting to play Cantor.
Larry Parks might have been able to play Cantor as well...
<firstname.lastname@example.org> By then, Larry Parks was blacklisted
Cantor's own books are wonderful reads. I highly recommend them if anyone hasn't seen them.
Joe - Yes, I was just thinking that.
Joe - Is there any chance you were at the Al Jolson Convention in Long Beach? They had a Cantor impersonator there.
Mike - It depends on what you consider "big".
Joe - Do you get the Cantor newsletter? There's a photo of him there.
Mike - Kid Boots, Kid Millions, Roman Scandals...Thank Your Lucky Stars...
Joe - If you go to www.libranpoet.com, there are some photos from the convention posted. I know he's in one of them with Michelle, popping out his eyes.
<email@example.com> Am I supposed to see what "Mike" is saying?
<Mikewats> Well, I guess I was thinking "big box office"...was he a major star at the time
I'm going back to pick up Mike's question.
Joe - Sounds like you know some about Cantor...can you answer that?
Mike - Cantor was a major star, but I don't know how much his movies made.
<firstname.lastname@example.org> Eddie Cantor was a major star in theearly '30s, I think.
He was also a big star in the Ziegfeld shows.
There's a sequence in one of his movies that's in early color...Cantor is heavily made-up.
<email@example.com> His big songs - If you knew Suzie & Ida, Sweet as Apple Cida
If you ever see Ziegfeld's "Glorifying the American Girl" from 1927, you can see his famous tailor routine.
I would consider Cantor to be on par with Jack, Burns and Allen, Bob Hope, Fred Allen, Ed Wynn, and others of his time.
When I say "on par", I mean as far as "star power" is concerned.
He also was well-noted for creating the March of Dimes and doing a lot of philanthropic work.
<bpok> and joe penner?
bpok - Wanna buy a duck?
<firstname.lastname@example.org> Time hasn't been as kind to him as all the others on Laura's list.
bpok - And Baron Munchausen and Stoopnagle and Budd. :)
<bpok> and who was that baron muenchhausen fellow
bpok - Are you asking seriously?
<bpok> (brilliant minds, laura)
<Mikewats> Well, I'll have to look and see if I have any Cantor in my stack of TCM tapes
<Ari> Was Canter more song or comedy as far as his stardom is concerned?
<bpok> I have a few Raleigh Kool shows
Ari - Well, more than Jack.
That is, more song than Jack. Jack couldn't really sing.
<Ari> I meant was Canter more known as a singer or a comedian
Joe - Adding to your list "Now's the Time to Fall in Love" and "We're Having a Baby"
Joe - And "Ma (He's Making Eyes at Me)"
Ari - I think of him as a comedian who sang. But others may disagree.
<bpok> laura, did you ever see "sugar Babies" when it was on stage?
bpok - Sure did. I interviewed Mickey Rooney backstage.
<bpok> (or anyone else) I guess thats as close as ill ever get to a vaudeville nite of entertainment
bpok - I'm not sure if that was closer to vaudeville or burlesque
<bpok> Mickey Rooney, Eddie Bracken, and Ann Miller were in our show
The "meet me round the corner in a half an hour" was much more burleque than vaudeville
<bpok> see, i wouldnt even be able to differentiate the two, Laura
<bpok> I have alot to learn...lol
As was the routine with the scantily-clad woman putting the doves all over her.
<bpok> i liked the rubber balloons routine
bpok - Well, vaudeville was always very much a family show. Remember B.F. Keith's posting of what people couldn't say in his theatres.
<bpok> I finally heard gypsy rose lee in a radio routine, boy, did she have a voice!
bpok - Sophie Tucker got fired for singing "Who Paid the Rent for Mrs. Rip Van Winkle (When Rip Van Winkle Was Away)"
<bpok> well, I remember the seven little foys
bpok - I have to see that movie.
Burlesque was much more baggy pants, seltzer in the face, pretty girls in very little clothing sort of thing (and the striptease).
Jack started in vaudeville. Abbott and Costello started in burlesque.
<Mikewats> I saw an ad in an old magazine recent for one of Gypsy Rose Lee's odder jobs...chairwoman for a clothing drive
<email@example.com> Laura, you ARE a font of knowledge
bpok - I promise not to share any of your secrets here. :)
Joe - Gee, thanks! :)
<bpok> Joe, these chats are so fun.. someone knows something about just about everything.. I learn so much
<firstname.lastname@example.org> Where would George M. Cohan have fit in - I'm thinking of Yankee Doodle Dandy
<bpok> I wish i could have done med school like this
Joe - That was definitely vaudeville.
[Sun Aug 03 19:55:57 PDT 2003] Ari has no profile.
The Cohans started as a family act.
<bpok> i need to go to bed guys, i need loads of beauty sleep, and i am into my time....
Take care, bpok! Keep in touch!
<bpok> nite.. all
<Mikewats> Well, I'm off to do my Sunday night chores...Laura, thanks as always!
Take care, Mike!
<Mikewats> Night, y'all
Well, gents, I'm happy to stay and talk if you'd like. But I don't want you to feel like I'm keeping you.
Vote for keep going or close it down for this month?
<email@example.com> I think I'll call it a night too
<_bill> its probably enough lot of topics covered
OK, my husband is making dinner, so I think I should go.
<_bill> bye all
Take care...see you next month!